Honestly, if WoTC didn't create it would 4e be D&D?

[Hussar]

They could have, simply by not adding stuff like this to the core game. But they didn't, for reasons that don't seem clear.

See, if they hadn't added stuff like this to the core game, they would have made lots of people who WANTED this sort of stuff unhappy. Again, you can't please everyone.

 

[pemerton]

If anything, my only complaint here is that there isn't a clear mechanic for 'reclassing' to go from the young defender to the grizzled veteran.

Good point.

And apparently AllisterH.

And me.

 

[Imp]

Why bother having a rogue in the party if you have someone take 1 level of rogue then progress as a ranger?

I've never, ever, ever heard of this one.

 

[WayneLigon]

I've never, ever, ever heard of this one.

No? It's a fairly standard practice if you're just making a sneak; one level of rogue gives you a huge boost in Hide and Move Silently, AND gives you the sneak attack ability. Then take Ranger from then on out; your Hide and Move Silent still progress at a good clip, you lose only 1 BAB and you get that delicious extra damage. Plus you have a smattering of other life-saving skills as back ups.

 

[Imp]

Just for 1d6 sneak attack? Sure, that's all right, but it hardly obsoletes the rogue class. And why wouldn't you then go rogue 4/ranger X? You're still at -1 BAB, and if you spread it out you can get reasonably competent at one or two rogue skills.

And wait wait wait Hide/Move Silently are class skills for both rogue and ranger – how's the one level of rogue particularly advantageous in using those skills?

Or is there a Complete Scoundrel feat I've forgotten.

The vice-versa dip, ranger 1/rogue x, was all over 3.0, of course...

 

[rounser]

See, if they hadn't added stuff like this to the core game, they would have made lots of people who WANTED this sort of stuff unhappy. Again, you can't please everyone.

I didn't see anyone asking for it, though. There seemed to be as much support for an archer core class, or whatever else random trope. It's just a WOTC hobby horse which is getting ridden because people want to big up the new edition entire.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Hussar - my issue isn't that each class get's it's schtick, it's that these things seemed to have been chosen completely at random. Take the ranger example I used earlier. Nothing, flat out nothing about it has anything to do with rangers. Yet, they're the only ones that can use it.

That's why Warlord breaks down for me, because his entire thing seems to be "A fighter who tells people what to do." When I look at him, I think "We just had this class. It was called fighter."

That said, I've warmed up to the warlord quite a bit on finding that he can hilariously TPK his own team with ease with "I can make you move with this power, right? Right, I shift you off the cliff."