Hope?

[Majoru Oakheart]

That seems like an odd place to draw the line, since the player is also doing the roleplaying and running the tacticals and deciding on how to best use their long term resources. Why is the player figuring out a riddle or a puzzle suddenly not role-playing?

It's a matter of dissatisfaction with puzzles that essentially required you to use principles of modern day science or math to figure out and having the players figure it out as the only solution.

It lead to a number of situations like:
Player: "Alright, that pad in the middle of the room gets really hot when anything it put on it right? So I take a bucket of water and throw it on there. It will heat it up, creating steam. Then the steam will fog up the window on the roof and I think a hidden message was likely written there with someone's fingers. You know, like a bathroom mirror. At least that's what I think the riddle on the wall over there means."
DM: "Yeah, that's right. And I'll let you do it despite the fact that a number of those concepts wouldn't really be known by common people(or by anyone) in a society with D&D level of technology AND the fact that you are an Int 6 Barbarian. I'll let you, mostly because that's the ONLY solution to get out of this room in the dungeon and none of the other players could come up with the answer."

They are sometimes fun to figure out, but not really an example of "good roleplaying"

 

[Korgoth]

They are sometimes fun to figure out, but not really an example of "good roleplaying"

Is this where I get to call "wrongbadfun" on you?

To press the matter, I think it's impossible for a modern gamer to really "roleplay" an Int 6 Barbarian from a fantasy world. Utterly different mindsets.

In fact, I don't really see how "roleplaying" is possible at all, if by roleplaying you mean somehow psychologically "inhabiting" the character in a consistent way. It's bound to be inconsistent. It has to be.

So why not have a room that requires steam to read a message? (Actually, you picked a bad example because steam power was invented in the ancient world anyway.) It's a game, and there will always be metagame thinking. So why not embrace it and have fun with it?

 

[lukelightning]

Isn't "You must solve this sudoku to get through the door" very 1e? ...They should make castle walls out of the stuff.

That sounds fine until someone comes along and doodles a "7" onto the wall in just the right spot and all your walls disappear.

 

[mearls]

The topic at hand: yes, it would be nice if these types of challenges were reinvigorated in the game.

There's a riddle in H1.

Also, there's a secret room that you can find only by piecing together a few clues (or seriously dumb luck/thoroughness).

No skill checks, just good, old fashioned brain processing power.

 

[Korgoth]

There's a riddle in H1.

Also, there's a secret room that you can find only by piecing together a few clues (or seriously dumb luck/thoroughness).

No skill checks, just good, old fashioned brain processing power.

Thanks for telling us about that. To me, this is golden news. And I mean "golden" in the good sense, not the "golden wyvern" sense.

Brain teasing dungeon = win.

 

[Imaro]

There's a riddle in H1.

Also, there's a secret room that you can find only by piecing together a few clues (or seriously dumb luck/thoroughness).

No skill checks, just good, old fashioned brain processing power.

Now I might actually buy this adventure. Definitely gets a thumbs up from me.

 

[Reaper Steve]

There's a riddle in H1.

Also, there's a secret room that you can find only by piecing together a few clues (or seriously dumb luck/thoroughness).

No skill checks, just good, old fashioned brain processing power.

Thank you very much!

 

[Plane Sailing]

There's a riddle in H1.

Also, there's a secret room that you can find only by piecing together a few clues (or seriously dumb luck/thoroughness).

No skill checks, just good, old fashioned brain processing power.

Very good news indeed, IMO.

I like the opportunity for myself (and other players) to engage brain as well as dice rolling arm, if you know what I mean!

 

[Plane Sailing]

Technically, sudoko is nothing to do with mathematics; the numbers are really just symbols - you could replace them with images of fruit and the rules would still be the same.

I agree: superficially it looks as though sudoku is a number puzzle, but the numbers are irrelevant. My 6 year old daughter loves playing a sudoku game, she just knows that each grid, row and column can only have 1 purple turtle, 1 blue elephant and so on

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That sounds fine until someone comes along and doodles a "7" onto the wall in just the right spot and all your walls disappear.