(+) Hopes for The Monk

[Minigiant]

Here is how my current rebuild of the monk looks.

Level	Prof bonus	Martial Arts	Ki	Unarmored Movement	Techniques Known	Features
1st	+2	1d4	-	-	-	Unarmored Defense, Martial Arts, Fighting Style
2nd	+2	1d4	2	+10ft	3	Ki, Unarmored Movement
3rd	+2	1d4	3	+10ft	4	Subclass
4th	+2	1d4	4	+10ft	5	Feat
5th	+3	1d6	5	+10ft	6	Extra Attack

As a monk, you gain the following class features.

Hit Points​

Hit Dice: 1d8 per monk level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per monk level after 1st​

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Choose one type of artisan's tools or one musical instrument
Saving Throws: Strength, Dexterity
Skills: Choose two from Acrobatics, Athletics, History, Insight, Religion, and Stealth

Unarmored Defense​

same

Martial Arts
Your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are any simple melee weapons that don't have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren't wearing armor or wielding a shield:

• You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
• Once on your turn when you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as an additional attack.

Fighting Style
You have honed your martial prowess. You gain one of the following Fighting Style Feats of your choice: Unarmored Striker, Wrestling

Unarmed Striker: You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
Wrestling: When you hit with an Unarmed Strike, you can choose to both deal damage and grapple.

Ki
Starting at 2nd level, your training allows you to harness the mystic energy of ki. Your access to this energy is represented by a number of ki points. Your monk level determines the number of points you have, as shown in the Ki Points column of the Monk table.

You can spend these points to fuel various ki techniques. You start knowing three such techniques of your choice. You many only choose a technique you meet the requirements for. You learn more ki techniques as you gain levels in this class.

When you spend a ki point, it is unavailable until you finish a short or long rest, at the end of which you draw all of your expended ki back into yourself. You must spend at least 30 minutes of the rest meditating to regain your ki points.

Some of your ki features require your target to make a saving throw to resist the feature's effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Ki save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier

• Dazing Strike: Once per turn, when you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 1 ki point to attempt a dazing strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.
• Deflect Missile: If you reduce the damage of an attack with Deflect Missile to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can spend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with a range of 20/60 using the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon for the attack.
• Diamond Soul (must be 12th level): Your mastery of ki grants you proficiency in all saving throws. Additionally, whenever you make a saving throw and fail, you can spend 3 ki point to reroll it and use the second result if you choose.
• Dragon God Strike (must be 5th level): When you hit with an unarmed strike, you can spend 5 ki to deal additional damage and knock the creature prone.The bonus damage is equal to 5 rolls of your martial arts die and is fire damage.
• Flurry of Blows. You can take an action and spend 2 ki points to make 5 unarmed strikes.
• Ki Focus (must be 5th level): When you miss with an attack roll, you can spend 1 to 3 ki points to increase your attack roll by 2 for each of these ki points you spend, potentially turning the miss into a hit.
• Ki Healing: As an action, you can spend 2 ki points and roll a Martial Arts die. You regain a number of hit points equal to the number rolled plus your proficiency bonus.
• Patient Defense. You can spend 2 ki point gain a +5 bonus to AC until the start of your next turn.
• Redirect Missile (must have Deflect Missile): If you reduce the damage of an attack with Deflect Missile to 0, you can catch the missile if it is small enough for you to hold in one hand and you have at least one hand free. If you catch a missile in this way, you can spend 1 ki point to make a ranged attack with a range of 20/60 using the weapon or piece of ammunition you just caught, as part of the same reaction. You make this attack with proficiency, regardless of your weapon proficiencies, and the missile counts as a monk weapon for the attack. The attack gains bonus damage equal to your martial arts die.
• Slow Fall: You can spend 1 ki and use your reaction when you fall to reduce any falling damage you take by an amount equal to ten times your monk level.
• Step of the Wind. You can spend 2 ki point to take the Disengage or Dash action as a bonus action on your turn. If you know this technique, your jump distance is doubled.
• Stunning Strike: Once on your turn, when you hit another creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend 2 ki point to attempt a stunning strike. The target must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or be stunned until the end of your next turn.
• Whirlwind of Blows (must be 11th level): You can take an action and spend 4 ki points to make 8 unarmed strikes

Feat
same

Extra Attack
same

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think that perhaps wheat is needed in the base class for ki could be longer-lasting effects.

Flurry of Blows - Spend 1 ki point. For 1 minute, when you make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, you instead make two unarmed strikes.

Step of The Wind - 1 ki, 1 minute, you get step of the wind effects on all movement and can disengage as a bonus action.

Shadow Strike - 2 ki, level 5, for 1 minute your unarmed attacks gain an extra 5ft reach, and deal an extra 1d6 force damage.

Stuff like that.

Oh, stunning strike would be 1 minute, 2 ki (maybe 3) and your attacks daze enemies on a failed save, and if they fail the Secondary save at the start of thier next turn they are stunned until the end of your next turn instead.

Dodge as a bonus action becomes a lot stronger if it is a defensive stance, but what if the stance gives you passive damage mitigation, which stacks with deflect attacks (deflect missiles can be used against any attack) making it much more likely you’ll negate attacks but also reducing damage even when you don’t.

 

[Undrave]

In response to all the "use an action to regain ki" and similar proposals, I have to reiterate my prior stance that ki should just be dropped for all the things a monk does on an average turn. At the point where a limited resource is freely regenerating it is no longer meaningfully a limited resource, and as an unlimited resource it makes the more special abilities running off of it too available.

The level 2 bonus action ki abilities just shouldn't use ki. The amount of ki you get should be balanced accordingly.

Hence my suggestion to crib from the Warlock, where Ki works like the Warlock's spell slots.

 

[Knight_Marshal]

They need to change it from Ki to Spiritual Energy. Ki invokes Eastern philosophy while Spiritual Energy can be anything.

This will also free them up to make a subclass like the Friar based on Friar Tuck who was also a master of quarter staff and sword for those tables that don't allow Eastern martial arts in their Western fantasy game.

 

[Clint_L]

They need to change it from Ki to Spiritual Energy. Ki invokes Eastern philosophy while Spiritual Energy can be anything.

This will also free them up to make a subclass like the Friar based on Friar Tuck who was also a master of quarter staff and sword for those tables that don't allow Eastern martial arts in their Western fantasy game.

The D&D monk has always been a martial arts themed class (as in, like martial arts media), but there’s nothing stopping you from reflavouring it for your table.

 

[Stormonu]

One of the big things that annoys me about the monk is its cookie-cutter nature. Beyond choosing a subclass, there just isn't really any significant choice in abilities as you level.

This is what I have been working on for my own version. The main thing is you choose a martial arts style that defines how much base damage your martial art attack does (Flurry and MA damage adjustment have been tweaked as well), and your style gives you a small battlefield control ability as well. Secondly, as you level you have a broad choice of ki abilities, similar to choosing Warlock invocations - allowing you to vastly customize your abilities.

Also, made Deflect Blows work against ranged weapons or melee attacks - giving the monk more staying power in hand-to-hand combat (though the amount deflected probably needs significant adjustment).

As I read the comments above, I'm considering some ki abilities should possibly become "cantrips", usable without spending a ki point to accomplish, as long as you have at least 1 ki point available. Possibly also reducing the total ki pool size in the process.

 

[mellored]

One of the big things that annoys me about the monk is its cookie-cutter nature. Beyond choosing a subclass, there just isn't really any significant choice in abilities as you level.

You get a lot of in-combat choices.

Rather than a fighter, who gets a style and effectively has to stick with it (especially with feats). Once you pick archery, your effectively stuck with a bow.

Bu monks can change per turn. Do you spend ki on flurry, stunning strike, or dodge?

I hope they maintain that flexibility.

 

[Clint_L]

Well, you get three choices (one of which a fighter could make, as well). Realistically, you are mostly choosing between flurry of blows or stunning strike. Usually, the correct answer is stunning strike. I concur with the point that monks need more meaningful choices.

 

[Undrave]

You get a lot of in-combat choices.

Rather than a fighter, who gets a style and effectively has to stick with it (especially with feats). Once you pick archery, your effectively stuck with a bow.

Bu monks can change per turn. Do you spend ki on flurry, stunning strike, or dodge?

I hope they maintain that flexibility.

Yeah but every Monk gets the same set of choice and, because of the MAD nature, usually end up with similar ability scores. You played a Monk at level 1 and 2 and you’ve played them all. You played a Sublcass and you’re done: no new experience to be had in that subclass. Compared to a Battlemaster it’s pretty lackluster.

A Rogue doesn’t get much choice of abilities either (only Expertise), but due to their SAD nature they can have widely different ability score spreads. You don’t get this kind of freedom with a Monk.

 

[Mistwell]

I want the monk to have one of two fundamental changes, and I don't care which:

1) A lot more Ki points, or
2) Separate some of their class and subclass abilities into their own ability pools separate from the Ki Point pool.

Using a very limited number of Ki points to fuel just about everything the monk does is the #1 thing holding the monk class back.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

why start the MA damage die at d4 instead of the d6? I mean that is a knife?

 

[Clint_L]

I think Way of Mercy should be the model for monk sub-classes going forward, because it does things with ki that actually change it from playing like other monks and present the player with viable competing choices. Heal, or do extra damage? Attempt to stun, or apply the poisoned condition to your foe? I'm playing a mercy monk right now, and at level 6 it feels like monks should feel: a valuable contributor who fits an important niche in the party. In comparison to other class/sub-classes, I would put mercy monk as a solid B/B+.

The good news is that as the most recent monk sub-class, Mercy gives us some insight into where the class is headed. Hopefully.

 

[NaturalZero]

I agree.

In Street Fighter terms, Ki should be for Super Moves/Arts. Special/Critical Moves/Arts should cost no ki.

Dragon Punch: Costs No Ki
Bahamut/Tiamat Punch: Costs Ki

This is exactly how psionics worked in 4e and I agree.

 

[Vael]

I never saw it in play, so while I like it, I don't know if it worked at the table, but the 13th Age version of the Monk had an interesting way of doing martial arts without Ki. You would learn a martial technique that would consist of three moves: an Opener, Chain and a Finisher. You can use any Chain attack you know the round after using an Opener, and can only use a Finisher after you use a Chain Attack. I've quite liked this as a way to do a "Tome of Battle" style martial combat in 5e.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don’t understand why there are so many people suggesting that the monk have at-will abilities that are only at-will as long as they have 1 ki. Why?

 

[Stalker0]

I don’t understand why there are so many people suggesting that the monk have at-will abilities that are only at-will as long as they have 1 ki. Why?

If we look at other martials, their schtick is delivering consistent performance no matter the situation. Sure a fighter without action surge isn’t as great, but they can still get the job done with solid attacks and a strong AC.

The perception of the monk is that it lacks stamina, it blows through it’s Ki quickly, and a monk without ki is a bad class.

So a lot of suggestions are around more staying power, the simplest being more ki, with others looking for ways to give them power without spending Ki

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If we look at other martials, their schtick is delivering consistent performance no matter the situation. Sure a fighter without action surge isn’t as great, but they can still get the job done with solid attacks and a strong AC.

The perception of the monk is that it lacks stamina, it blows through it’s Ki quickly, and a monk without ki is a bad class.

So a lot of suggestions are around more staying power, the simplest being more ki, with others looking for ways to give them power without spending Ki

Oh no I didn’t make my source of confusion clear, sorry.

I don’t get the “as long as they have 1 or more ki” part. Why not just…actually at-will?

I do consider martial arts attack and Unarmored movement to be cantrip versions of flurry and step of the wind, but you have to be open hand to get close to at-will version of stunning strike, and even then it’s an added rider on FoB.

Which is part of why I proposed:

Deflect missiles becomes deflect attacks

Martial arts attack gets a boost at later levels

Unarmored movement also increases jump height and distance.

And I’d also propose, as part of the stunning strikes feature at level 6, when you hit with an unarmed attack, you can perform two effects of the unarmed attack, rather than one, and you gain new effects you can perform. (Disarm, silence, deny reactions for 1 round, aid an ally’s next attack against the target)

oh, and I’d add a “iron fist” thing (not called that) where you concentrate ki into your fists and deal extra damage with every attack until the end of your next turn, and then 11 level or later you get more attacks.

 

[James Gasik]

Oh no I didn’t make my source of confusion clear, sorry.

I don’t get the “as long as they have 1 or more ki” part. Why not just…actually at-will?

I do consider martial arts attack and Unarmored movement to be cantrip versions of flurry and step of the wind, but you have to be open hand to get close to at-will version of stunning strike, and even then it’s an added rider on FoB.

Which is part of why I proposed:

Deflect missiles becomes deflect attacks

Martial arts attack gets a boost at later levels

Unarmored movement also increases jump height and distance.

And I’d also propose, as part of the stunning strikes feature at level 6, when you hit with an unarmed attack, you can perform two effects of the unarmed attack, rather than one, and you gain new effects you can perform. (Disarm, silence, deny reactions for 1 round, aid an ally’s next attack against the target)

oh, and I’d add a “iron fist” thing (not called that) where you concentrate ki into your fists and deal extra damage with every attack until the end of your next turn, and then 11 level or later you get more attacks.

Mostly for flavor; it might seem weird to some that the Monk can still perform some feats even without any Ki; a lot of Pathfinder 1e classes have abilities like this, like the Swashbuckler. Having "gas in the tank" to support your special powers, and also, not being able to perform them when running on empty has some verisimilitude.

The 3.5 era Reserve Feats function along these same lines, giving you an at will magic ability that you can only use if you have spell slot unspent to power them. So there is a cost to these abilities, you're not just getting something for nothing.

I didn't suggest this sort of thing because I felt it was a balance point so much as I assumed other people would feel it was better balanced.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Mostly for flavor; it might seem weird to some that the Monk can still perform some feats even without any Ki; a lot of Pathfinder 1e classes have abilities like this, like the Swashbuckler. Having "gas in the tank" to support your special powers, and also, not being able to perform them when running on empty has some verisimilitude.

The 3.5 era Reserve Feats function along these same lines, giving you an at will magic ability that you can only use if you have spell slot unspent to power them. So there is a cost to these abilities, you're not just getting something for nothing.

I didn't suggest this sort of thing because I felt it was a balance point so much as I assumed other people would feel it was better balanced.

Ah okay. That makes sense. It’s not my cup of tea, but I can dig it.

 

[mellored]

Maybe it's easier to just have "you gain 1 ki at the start of your turn".

Then basic moves cost 1.
And power moves cost 2 or 3.