Hordes of the Abyss: Q&A

[Gold Roger]

So far this all really sounds like the book suffered from a too small format.

Here's my questions:

Does it mention anywhere that demon princes have control of their layer more or less at their will?

Any way you could elaborate on the new kinds of demons?

Anything elaborate on summoning/binding demons?

 

[Erik Mona]

The book mentions that demon lords control their layers more or less at will several times. The layers have the "divinely morphic" trait from the MotP, and for these purposes the demon princes who control a layer qualify as "divine."

--Erik

 

[Mouseferatu]

Nope. Turaglas was only ever mentioned in the appendix, and is still there.

--Erik

Cool. The ego is safe for another day, then.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The book mentions that demon lords control their layers more or less at will several times. The layers have the "divinely morphic" trait from the MotP, and for these purposes the demon princes who control a layer qualify as "divine."

--Erik

Can I quote this, in bold, bright red itallics, in the thread where people are arguing about the demon lords being too weak? This right here makes a huge difference.

 

[Shemeska]

The whole business about everything coming from the Abyss is in an excerpt from the Black Scrolls of Ahm, and written in character, in italics. That history is pretty much invalidated by the introduction to the "Into the Abyss" section (which I wrote) that categorically states that the obyriths predate mortals, and that the Inner Planes existed before the Outer Planes (you'll have to read this in context to understand what I mean). So my advice would be not to take the Black Scrolls too seriously, and to choose whatever works best for your campaign.

Of course, you do realize that as you type this stuff, and I read it, we're doing a pretty good impression of Pavlov and a drooling dog respectively.

Context aside, I'm not surprised I suppose since the inner planes were already widely rumored to have been there before the outer planes, with the latter either just not existing prior to the prime, or existing in a much less defined, and likely immaterial state before they solidified with mortal belief.

At least that's how I've interpereted it myself in my campaigns, though I've been partial to the notion that the abstract beings referenced by the Baernaloth legends might themselves exist outside of the Great Wheel in some fashion, and the heralds of those alignments might not so much have been formed out of the raw stuff of the forming planes of the Great Wheel, but sent there from 'outside'. I've also been partial to the idea that when the outer planes of the Wheel first formed, Sigil was already there waiting for them with its Bladed Queen a mystery even then.

But regardless of the way I've gone with planar proto-history in my stories and campaign, I'm curious to see where exactly you took this. If there are ideas that tempt me, I'll shameless adapt them if they fit. Yummy stuff.

Of course. Here's the text in question:

"Obyriths: The rusting iron fortresses of the eldest demons crowd the Plain of Infinite Portals, crumbling testaments to a near-forgotten age. Before the first mortal was born, the obyriths ruled the Abyss, and their political ambitions and plots have seldom extended beyond the plane of their origin. Certain blasphemous texts of incalculable antiquity claim that the obyriths and a proto-race of ancient Baatorians were the spawn of a greater fiendish race called the baernoloths, but this unified creation myth enjoys few proponents outside Gehenna and the Gray Wastes of Hades."

And, you know, EN World.

*fiendgasm*

There, as much as I've objected to the archfiend CR issue on the other thread, you've likewise earned some praise on the fluff here.

James turned in his Baphomet article about a day before I made my official turnover, so I only had time to mention Dweirgus in the list of demon lords in the appendix.

--Erik

Drat. Oh well. I've already tossed his name out in my own campaign regardless, in the context of having some vague relation to Pale Night (whose own exact nature has been something lurking in the background for the last four years of two campaigns now). The way James described Dweirgus was just nifty enough to really put some hooks into me, so regardless of any other stuff on him forthcoming, I'll probably go my own way with him. Unless of course you guys are open to an article pitch.

Eventually I hope to actually get something in with you guys. *cough* But anyways, thanks for the answers Erik, I really appreciate it.

 

[Nightfall]

Yep thanks for the replies Erik.

 

[zoroaster100]

Cool stuff. I hope WOTC approves a Dragon article or web enhancement with the "short descriptions of minor layers" information. That is one piece that would have been really useful to have in the book, which I'll miss because it was cut.

 

[Shade]

Here lies Shade,
the flavor of the Codex was too sinfully fiendish for his mortal form.

<Save vs. death throes>

 

[Soel]

Any mention of the tanarri living fortresses from Dragon? (PS era)

 

[JoeGKushner]

CR 1: mane
CR 2: abyssal maw, abyssal skulker, dretch, nashrou, quasit
CR 3: abyssal ravager, maurezhi (5-6 HD), rutterkin
CR 4: abyssal evicerator, ekolid, guecubu, maurezh (7-8 HD), skulvyn
CR 5: bar-lgura, jovoc, maurezhi (9-10 HD), juvenile nabassu, skurchur, water demon
CR 6: artaaglith, babau, broodswarm, maurezhi (11-12 HD), uridezu
CR 7: armanite, arrow demon, succubus, maurezhi (14-14 HD), zovvur
CR 8: dybbuk, palrethee, maurezhi (15-16 HD), shadow demon, yochol
CR 9: abyssal drake, bulezu, vrock, maurezhi (17-18 HD)
CR 10: alkilith, bebilith, cerebrilith, chasme, maurezhi (19-20 HD)
CR 11: hezrou, retriever, wastrilith
CR 12: ghour, lilitu
CR 13: glabrezu, jarilith
CR 14: blood fiend, kelvezu, nalfeshnee
CR 15: nabassu, sibriex
CR 16: goristro
CR 17: klurichir, marilith, sorrowsworn
CR 18: deathdrinker, myrmyxicus
CR 19: molydeus
CR 20; balor

that covers crs of creatures in book and other resources.