Hordes of the Abyss: Q&A

[Shemeska]

1. Dragonlance's cosmology was separate before it became incorporated into the Great Wheel (around the time of Manual of the Planes). The Dragonlance Abyss and the Greyhawk Abyss weren't originally identical. MotP and 2nd edition AD&D even had to move Takhisis to the Nine Hells since she's lawful evil. So it's not so much a retcon as a retcon of a retcon, and we worked hard to clarify all of this in the recent DL gaming sourcebooks.

It wasn't so much seperate as it didn't have a cosmology before it was part of the Wheel. There was never any real suggestion of a seperate DL cosmology outside of some very vague notions in DL Adventures, which listed a few names of places but did not establish anything concrete. Later in 1e they were incorporated into the Great Wheel and those names were used in subsequent sources as names of divine domains as I recall, not much of a retcon if any retcon at all, the 3e DL retcon being more invasive on some levels, but the novels have always been vague enough to not really make one difference or another. It's debateable.

I could also just default to the notion of... Psst, the scholars on Krynn just didn't know what they were talking about, calling -every- evil outer plane 'the Abyss'. j/k

2. Chemosh isn't chaotic evil, he's neutral evil. So either he's slumming in an Abyssal layer or he's not the Dragonlance Chemosh (who is incidentally a major player in recent Dragonlance novels.)

Chemosh is listed in the relevant 2e material (OHG, p180) as having his divine domain in the Abyss. The plane doesn't match his alignment, sure, but while most deities choose to carve out their home in a plane that does match them, it's not a strict requirement. Chemosh for whatever reason chose this route (perhaps to seperate himself from Takhisis in Baator?).

 

[Shade]

I'm failing to see why the DL deities being in FC is such an issue. FC isn't a Dragonlance product, so it has no impact on the campaign setting. Borrowing items from other campaign settings is a long-running tradition of D&D (that's how Tiamat ended up in DL, right?), so how does having a couple similarly-named gods on a list in an appendix to a non-core book going to cause any problems?

 

[JustaPlayer]

I'm failing to see why the DL deities being in FC is such an issue. FC isn't a Dragonlance product, so it has no impact on the campaign setting. Borrowing items from other campaign settings is a long-running tradition of D&D (that's how Tiamat ended up in DL, right?), so how does having a couple similarly-named gods on a list in an appendix to a non-core book going to cause any problems?

Tiamat has never been in DL. The reason why it matters is that you think Tiamat was part of DL. The creators of said world do not wish to have their vision muddied.

 

[Shade]

Tiamat has never been in DL. The reason why it matters is that you think Tiamat was part of DL. The creators of said world do not wish to have their vision muddied.

How could Takhisis be anything but inspired by Tiamat?

 

[Pants]

Tiamat has never been in DL.

Tiamat WAS Takhisis. 2e subsequently muddled it up for no good reason, but back in 1e, they were one and the same.

That said, I'm all for keeping DL and the Great Wheel split, they never really fit together, even after all the retconns.

 

[Nightfall]

All I have to say is Orcus rules but the picture they used in the book shouldn't have been the one from BoVD. It should have been the one on the art gallery.

 

[Shade]

All I have to say is Orcus rules but the picture they used in the book shouldn't have been the one from BoVD. It should have been the one on the art gallery.

Orcus rules (Thanatos), Juiblex drools, and Malcanthet is a wicked hottie (her picture should have been the one from Maxim).

After Year of Dragons ends, I think next year should be Year of Fiends.

 

[Nightfall]

I'm all for it. (And yes he rules Thanatos now but soon it won't just be there!)

 

[JustaPlayer]

Tiamat WAS Takhisis. 2e subsequently muddled it up for no good reason, but back in 1e, they were one and the same.

That said, I'm all for keeping DL and the Great Wheel split, they never really fit together, even after all the retconns.

Not according to Wies/Hickman. They created the world. I'll stick with their vision of it.

 

[JustaPlayer]

Erik, if you are still around, what are the chances of seeing some of the lords not covered (except in the appendix) in future Demonomicon articles? The ones coming out not are great, I just can't help but feeling the stuff has mostly been covered before(because it has).