Hordes of the Abyss.

[James Jacobs]

Has the Klurichir been fixed somewhere I don't know about maybe? Surprised a Fiend Folio errata hadn't been released, especially since there was that one errata for a 3.0 bok that came out of nowhere on their website sometime back. I think it was Magic of Faerun? Or one of them, not sure which. It was 3.0 though.

I don't think it has. We didn't update it in "Hordes" because we wanted to limit the updated demons to those that have been in the game the longest (essentially, the ones from the Book of Vile Darkness and Manual of the Planes). Demons that are completely new to 3rd edition we left alone so we could use that space to present some new demons.

 

[Sammael]

$16.98 at Buy.com

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202150076&loc=106&sp=1

10% cheaper than Amazon.com.

Gotta love 'em.

Actually, I hate 'em, since they don't ship to Europe.

 

[Razz]

And remember, you don't get XP for those balors because it's built into the creature's CR.

I think I will keep the CR 25 for the klurichir. I mean, it has 9 attacks, improved grab with vorpal pincers and it isn't considered grappled (and no -20 penalty to the grapple either), tons of spell-like abilities AND casts spells as a 10th-level Sorceror that it can use to both buff up before the fight and lay out PCs during. Top that with the ability to summon two CR 20 balors, the 3.5 kinds too, we're talking 17th-level PC wipe out. Heh. Forgot it's SR of 36, that's a 19 or higher to even get a spell on it for a 17th-level caster. Better hope that caster has Spell Penetration and Greater, which only drops it to 17 and 15 respectively. Still a 75% chance of spell failure against it.

Plus it's description depicts it as a terrible demon that other demons fear or respect, a general of armies, which sounds to me like it's equal to a balor or should be stronger than one.

As for the CR 18 myrmyxicus, heh, with 12 attacks (4 scythes, one at 4 attacks total, bite, tail, and 6 tentacles) along with its other abilities, CR 21 seems fit for me as well.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Actually, I hate 'em, since they don't ship to Europe.

My bad. I didn't realize that Venal Fortress, Gray Waste of Hades was in Europe.

 

[James Jacobs]

That's very interesting James. Will Dragon and Dungeon magazine then no longer claim to be official support and no longer use the Dungeons and Dragons logo? I mean, it's an artifact from 1st ed right? Has no real effect on what people buy or think right?

HA! Well played!

I agree that something that's "official" certainly has a major effect on what people buy and what they don't. More to the point, having the D&D logo on your product VASTLY increases sales. So in that regard, something being "official" is certainly very much NOT an artifact. The magazines are (and will continue to be) the official D&D magazines.

That doesn't mean that what's NOT "official" is in any way less viable.

 

[Shade]

Did James's very own orlath from Dungeon #95 make the cut?

That is one cool demon.

 

[JoeGKushner]

HA! Well played!

I agree that something that's "official" certainly has a major effect on what people buy and what they don't. More to the point, having the D&D logo on your product VASTLY increases sales. So in that regard, something being "official" is certainly very much NOT an artifact. The magazines are (and will continue to be) the official D&D magazines.

That doesn't mean that what's NOT "official" is in any way less viable.

And if we were talking about Tome of Horrors I'd agree as that's an unofficial awesome book.

But what we're talking about here are two very different approaches to statting out and detailing high powered entitites by 'official' sources and the customers are being double dipped for it and told "well it's for lower powered campaigns" when it comes to the book and "hey, this is how it should be" by the exact same authors in the Dragon mag.

Yeah. People wonder why I'm cynical. [Looks at title.]

 

[Sammael]

My bad. I didn't realize that Venal Fortress, Gray Waste of Hades was in Europe.

The Balkans, to be more precise. Over here, the Astral is so thin that you can't tell where the Prime ends and where the Lower Planes begin.

 

[James Jacobs]

I think I will keep the CR 25 for the klurichir. I mean, it has 9 attacks, improved grab with vorpal pincers and it isn't considered grappled (and no -20 penalty to the grapple either), tons of spell-like abilities AND casts spells as a 10th-level Sorceror that it can use to both buff up before the fight and lay out PCs during. Top that with the ability to summon two CR 20 balors, the 3.5 kinds too, we're talking 17th-level PC wipe out. Heh.

Fair enough. You'll probably want to bump its Constitution up by 10 points or so, in any case. And it's AC needs work.

Alternately, just cut the 2 balor bit and you're about right for a CR 17 critter. Tons of spell-like abilities don't really matter for determining a CR score, since versatility doesn't really help if a combat only lasts 3-5 rounds. It DOES send it's Level Adjustment through the roof, though.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

And I thought it was because you can say and do one thing for WoTC and then go around and do it's exact opposite at Piazo.

Silly me.

Y'know, Joe, seriously, while I understand your point, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Paizo may be able to label stuff as "official," but it's still a separate entity from WotC. If Dragon and Dungeon were still House Organs, then I'd say they should keep in lockstep with what the big guy is doing. But they're not. So while they presumably can't alter the game beyond recognition, they can present their own take on certain things, like monsters.