Hospitaller balanced?

[Celtavian]

Re

The Hospitaler and Templar seem more like NPC classes. I guess you could play a very specific campaign where the PC's are defending a Temple or Hospital.

The big drawback to both classes is that there is not much reason for either one to adventure. The DM would definitely have to allow a lose interpretation of each class to allow either to adventure on a long-term basis.

In our campaign world, no one plays a Hospitaler or Templar because we don't allow such a loose interpretation of each classes purpose. If you are a Hospitaler, then you defend hospitals. If you are a Templar, then you defend a chosen Temple.

A DM might be able to find a good reason for a Hospitaler to adventure for a while such as acquiring a cure from some adventuring place, or a Templar to go on a mission for this Temple. Eventurally, it becomes harder and harder to justify a roleplaying reason why they travel with the other adventurers. Especially, if the other adventurers are not associated with their church or hospital/temple.


I am surprised someone thinks the arcane trickster overpowered. The class seems fairly balanced. You have to give up about 3 or more caster levels and quite a few rogue special abilities and skill points just for sneak attack, casting abilty, and a few extra special abilities. Seems like a fair trade off.

 

[Paul_Klein]

Celtavian brings up a good point -

How many of your player's actually pick a prestige class based on what the PrC is about, rather then the 'stats'.

 

[James McMurray]

I would vote Mage of the Arcane Order as the most broken class in Tome and Blood. It isn't too bad for wizards (although it basically turns them into clerics, since they can now prepare any spell they want. However, in the hands of a sorcerer it can be nasty. You suddenly have more spells per day and spells known than any wizard.

 

[Archer]

Do you realize you have to waste 2 feats as a sorceror to join and then you can only pull 1/2 your caster level in spells per day?

A 20th level caster could pull 2 5th level spells. When you only get 7 feats, 2 is a lot to waste.

When you really look at it, most classes people think are unbalanced aren't. If a class had nothing good about it then no one would take it. For some its worth the tradeoff, for others it isn't. It really depends a lot on your party composition and the world you play in.

 

[The Souljourner]

Archer - the FAQ changed Hospitaler (clarified really... it had two sections that talked about its spells) so that it just gives +1 caster level per level, without changing domains or anything like that.

Celtavian - it's an age old proverb - don't use roleplaying penalties to balance statistical bonuses.

BlackRazor - Verdant Lord? VERDANT LORD? WTF? You give up better wildshapes for turning into a plant and fighter BAB? How crappy is that?! And on top of that, you're improving your crappy druid spells. Whoopee. That or as a cleric you have to take Plant as a domain, and lose turning. Granted that's less of a drawback for the cleric, but still... You have to take two *totally* crappy feats to get into it, and the only decent ability they get is turning into a frigging *plant* at 10th level. And while plants evidently get a crapload of immunities, it's still 10 levels of a prestige class for that one ability and +2 BAB. Whatever.

-The Souljourner

 

[demon_jr]

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but since I have my DM's guide nearby, here is a little quote that came to mind after reading this thread:

"A character with a prestige class is more specialized yet perhaps slightly better than a character without one. DMG p.27"

 

[hammymchamham]

don't forget the life of poverty, mind you. unless you don't roleplay

 

[Spatula]

Do you realize you have to waste 2 feats as a sorcerer to join

And then you get two bonus metamagic feats from the MotAO prestige class, so that's a wash.

 

[Spatula]

Re: Re

I am surprised someone thinks the arcane trickster overpowered. The class seems fairly balanced. You have to give up about 3 or more caster levels and quite a few rogue special abilities and skill points just for sneak attack, casting abilty, and a few extra special abilities. Seems like a fair trade off.

The problem with the Arcane Trickster is that if you're already a rogue/wizard, there's no reason not to take it. You get full spellcasting & full sneak attack progression, plus special abilities on top of that. If the class had, for example, slower sneak attack progression and less-than-full spellcasting progression, I don't think anyone would be complaining about it.

 

[The Souljourner]

Arcane Trickster - d4 hitpoints, wizard BAB, only 4 skillpoints per level, no rogue special abilities... that's a fair number of things to lose. Basically all the class gets is wizard + sneak attack. Taking 5/5/10 wizard/rogue/AT levels, you'll have +10 BAB. Whoop-tee f'ing doo. Not exactly a combat king here. +11 BAB if you got 4 rogue 6 wizard.

Good? definitely. Spectacular? Nah.

-The Souljourner