House of Dragons vs. Rings of Power (and a touch of Wheel of Time)

[doctorbadwolf]

Someone sad-faced my assessment of Wheel of Time, but I stand by it.

That show is the worst adaptation I've seen since Shannara, and frankly I enjoyed Shannara more, since it just went ahead and made the show it's own thing, instead of trying to pretend it was being faithful.

WoT has made my wife and I wary of adaptations at all. I dread the notion that the Chronicles of Prydain might get a live action adaptation, after watching the first episode of WoT, and reading what they've done since then, even though they're very different studios.

And this, after doing so well on casting.

I started to have worries when they changed the look of iconic things in ways that felt very 90's superhero movie, by which I mean some suit said the equivalent of "don't put them in yellow and blue tights, it will look stupid and no one will take it seriously". Lans sword becomes a katana for no reason. There are recreations of the swords from the series that match Jordan's description, and they look great, someone justj thought katanas are the apex of "cool sword".

Then it came out that they pushed the showrunner to go darker and darker, for an adaptation of a story of hope that even in it's darkest chapters wasn't unambiguously dark.

Andj then they made Perrin married to a minor character from the books that he mentioned having a thing for as a kid, in passing, when he and his actual wife were back in the Two Rivers, and had him kill her to jumpstart his internal struggle...and then still used the event that started that story arc in the books like 1 or 2 episodes later!

Nah.

Let the CW wannabe waste of time "adaptation" fade into a bad memory.

 

[Zardnaar]

WoT wasn't great. Kinda enjoyed it but it was rough.

It's the weakest of the 5 fantasy shows on atm imho.

 

[wicked cool]

WoT wasn't great. Kinda enjoyed it but it was rough.

It's the weakest of the 5 fantasy shows on atm imho.

I agree
House of dragon
Witcher
Rings of power
Shadow of bone
Wot
That’s my order

Clearly the Witcher has a lower budget than rings but the characters are far more likeable than any of the shows below. The monsters are more interesting and have more character to them
Ring's and wot should be higher. 18 year old me if I could time travel would be saying these should be awesome with the budgets . Wot tried to make a fantasy version of riverdale. The kids were dressed like they in a cosplay and the main star isn’t very compelling
Rings is jamming hundreds of years into a few days and I’m not sure why. The acting at times isn’t very good at times but the scenery is some of the best
Shadow and bone isn’t compelling, acting isn’t very good and I think it’s probably the first that gets cancelled

 

[Parmandur]

Someone sad-faced my assessment of Wheel of Time, but I stand by it.

That show is the worst adaptation I've seen since Shannara, and frankly I enjoyed Shannara more, since it just went ahead and made the show it's own thing, instead of trying to pretend it was being faithful.

WoT has made my wife and I wary of adaptations at all. I dread the notion that the Chronicles of Prydain might get a live action adaptation, after watching the first episode of WoT, and reading what they've done since then, even though they're very different studios.

And this, after doing so well on casting.

I started to have worries when they changed the look of iconic things in ways that felt very 90's superhero movie, by which I mean some suit said the equivalent of "don't put them in yellow and blue tights, it will look stupid and no one will take it seriously". Lans sword becomes a katana for no reason. There are recreations of the swords from the series that match Jordan's description, and they look great, someone justj thought katanas are the apex of "cool sword".

Then it came out that they pushed the showrunner to go darker and darker, for an adaptation of a story of hope that even in it's darkest chapters wasn't unambiguously dark.

Andj then they made Perrin married to a minor character from the books that he mentioned having a thing for as a kid, in passing, when he and his actual wife were back in the Two Rivers, and had him kill her to jumpstart his internal struggle...and then still used the event that started that story arc in the books like 1 or 2 episodes later!

Nah.

Let the CW wannabe waste of time "adaptation" fade into a bad memory.

Yeah, I went in open minded and willing to let the showrunners do their own thing, but their own thing was incoherent.

Any good qualities the show has (acting, visuals) actually make it worse for me, because the gestalt is such a mess that the value is lost.

Rings of Power, on the other hand, has restored a bit of faith in humanity for me.

 

[Morrus]

I agree
House of dragon
Witcher
Rings of power
Shadow of bone
Wot
That’s my order

Rings of Power
House of the Dragon
....
....
Witcher
....
Wheel of Time

 

[Zardnaar]

I agree
House of dragon
Witcher
Rings of power
Shadow of bone
Wot
That’s my order

Clearly the Witcher has a lower budget than rings but the characters are far more likeable than any of the shows below. The monsters are more interesting and have more character to them
Ring's and wot should be higher. 18 year old me if I could time travel would be saying these should be awesome with the budgets . Wot tried to make a fantasy version of riverdale. The kids were dressed like they in a cosplay and the main star isn’t very compelling
Rings is jamming hundreds of years into a few days and I’m not sure why. The acting at times isn’t very good at times but the scenery is some of the best
Shadow and bone isn’t compelling, acting isn’t very good and I think it’s probably the first that gets cancelled

Think I would put Shadow and Bone ahead of RoP. Otherwise think I'll go with your list.

I think it was a big hit in terms of viewers. More importantly it was really cheap comparatively. 60 odd million iirc whole season.

Wouldn't nitpick any list personal preference etc. Unless someone put WoT at the top That's just wrong.

Probably rewatch Shadow and Bone, already done Either rewatch and I'll see how good RoP is binged.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, I went in open minded and willing to let the showrunners do their own thing, but their own thing was incoherent.

Any good qualities the show has (acting, visuals) actually make it worse for me, because the gestalt is such a mess that the value is lost.

Rings of Power, on the other hand, has restored a bit of faith in humanity for me.

Absolutely. Had summaries and such of subsequent episodes been heartening we were open to giving WoT a second chance, but for every good thing (Loial being a lovable doof, the recent casting of Elayne, the Tower being pretty gay) there are multiple things that are either very bad (Perrin, Matt’s Family) or just dumb and vaguely annoying (Lan's katana, waygates looking totally wrong, Thom’s guitar and cloak, Logain looking like a rough vagrant, etc). Taken together, it just reminds me of a less fun Shannara.

Tbh, I think it just needed either a different studio or showrunner, or both, based on who was so worried about things not looking “cool” enough or familiar enough to American audience, who pushed for “make it darker! More edge!”, etc. The casting and acting is great, the visuals mostly solid, the sets especially are great, even the writing and directing aren’t bad. It’s more just the top level decision stuff.

 

[nevin]

While the shows are quite different, and certainly George RR Martin and his world and JRR Tolkien and his world are strikingly distinct from each other, even to non-fantasy fans, presenting archetypes of two major locus points of epic fantasy, it is hard not to compare them, if only for their matching release dates (more or less). And I will take one very specific feeling I have, which is in reverse:

With each new episode of House of Dragons, I find myself liking the series more and more. With each new episode of Rings of Power, I find myself liking the series less and less.

That's it in a nutshell. If that's (more than) enough for you, move on. If you're curious why, read on.

Now I have my complaints with House of Dragons. Mainly, I don't find myself loving any of the characters - not like Tyrion, certainly, or the other series-stealing Lannisters, or even really the various Starks, and countless other terrific characters, primary and secondary, that made Game of Thrones so great. I like some of the characters; Daemon certainly charismatically dominates every scene he's in, and I care about Rhaenyra and her fate, and feel for King Viserys. There are lots of good characters, but few (or no) great ones. Yet. In truth, HOD has made me realize just how good GOT was (and yes, especially the first five or six seasons), mainly due to the characters and their arcs. There was a character for every flavor, every appetite. And each of them had a distinct arc over the course of the series.

Which brings me to a second, and related, complaint. What happened to the humor? And it isn't only the lack of Tyrion, but any number of witty characters in GOT. HOD has no humor - it is all red and black, dragons and smoke. To some extent that's OK - that's probably deliberate. But the lack of a balancing levity and wit is notable.

Some of this can be addressed as the series unfolds, though I've seen little sign of much humor emerging. That's OK, it is still very good already - and could become even better.

Now Rings of Power is a bit different. I'm more of a Tolkien than Martin fan, and enjoy the literary world of Middle-earth more than that of Westeros. So in a way, my standards are set higher - or rather, I'm more sensitive to dissonance and disappointment. Am I disappointed? On one hand, no, because I didn't expect much. As I said in the (+) thread, it is neither as good as a hoped, nor as bad as I feared; or at least that is how I felt after the first two episodes. Now the latter half of that sentence is becoming less true.

But the problem is in reverse of HOD: With each passing episode, my interest dwindles away. Sure, there are some nice visuals, and I want to see how various elements unfold. But the writing and characters and plotting--meaning, everything else other than the visuals--is just poor. None of the characters are likable, except for maybe one or two, if we rate "tolerable" on the scale of likability. The dialogue and plotting is pedantic, ponderous, and tediously boring. Really, I think Erik Kain of Forbes summed up some of my feelings quite well.

Like Kain, I would have been happy with "expensive fan fiction" done well. While I'm a quasi-Tolkienista (e.g. I've actually read The Silmarillion - actually several times), I'm not rigid about everything being perfectly canonical. I would have been happy with a well-made "in the spirit of" series. But it isn't well-made (yes, IMO, if you need me to qualify that with a recognition of my own subjectivity). Or rather, the visuals are well made, but as Kain said, "the problem is everything else." Meaning, what I hoped for was even just a loose homage to Tolkien (which we're getting) with strong characters, acting and plot (which we're not).

Can Rings of Power get better and re-capture my fading interest? Maybe. I mean, I'll keep watching it - if only because its (sorta, kinda, not really, but just a tad) Tolkien-esque. But early returns are not promising.

In a way I find it comparable to The Wheel of Time, perhaps not coincidentally another Amazon series. WOT also has the feeling of "in the spirit of" Robert Jordan rather than a loving recreation of Jordan's world and story ala Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings or Game of Thrones. But I find Wheel of Time's weaknesses more forgivable, mainly because it has no precedents, and thus is a first dive into Jordan's world. It felt like a rough draft - and this was perhaps at least partially--if not largely--due to the time it was filmed. Meaning, I'll be more stringent in my judgment with season 2, hoping that it will consolidate and increase its strengths, while working out its kinks.

On the other hand, Peter Jackson looms large over Rings of Power, and presumably the show-runners realize this, so are constantly putting in bits that clearly are meant to deliberately remind us of Jackson's first trilogy. But it ends up feeling a bit cheap, like they're overly relying on reminding us of how good Jackson's films were (again, LoTR - I will not speak of The Hobbit), rather than focus on making a good and distinct series.

So again, in summary, HOD started well and keeps getting better - or at least my interest deepens. ROP started a bit shaky, and has not improved one bit and even seemingly gotten worse - or at least my interest becomes a bit weaker.

I'm only addressing rings of power. I think they screwed themselves with some of the liberties they took with the story. You don't pull stuff out of lost tales and the silmarillion to grab the geeks then mangle it. Like sauron not being captured and imprisoned by Numenor. The wonderful story we could have had. Of him corrupting first the jailors the the rulers then the nobility and.people of power before the fall could have been many episodes of HOD miserableness and great story telling but somebody decided to cut the greatest corruption story of middle earth into a simple he shows up and the island sinks. Add bad writing like Galadriel instead of refusing to leave Middle Earth decides to swim back.... Stick a fork in it it's done.

 

[nevin]

Someone sad-faced my assessment of Wheel of Time, but I stand by it.

That show is the worst adaptation I've seen since Shannara, and frankly I enjoyed Shannara more, since it just went ahead and made the show it's own thing, instead of trying to pretend it was being faithful.

WoT has made my wife and I wary of adaptations at all. I dread the notion that the Chronicles of Prydain might get a live action adaptation, after watching the first episode of WoT, and reading what they've done since then, even though they're very different studios.

And this, after doing so well on casting.

I started to have worries when they changed the look of iconic things in ways that felt very 90's superhero movie, by which I mean some suit said the equivalent of "don't put them in yellow and blue tights, it will look stupid and no one will take it seriously". Lans sword becomes a katana for no reason. There are recreations of the swords from the series that match Jordan's description, and they look great, someone justj thought katanas are the apex of "cool sword".

Then it came out that they pushed the showrunner to go darker and darker, for an adaptation of a story of hope that even in it's darkest chapters wasn't unambiguously dark.

Andj then they made Perrin married to a minor character from the books that he mentioned having a thing for as a kid, in passing, when he and his actual wife were back in the Two Rivers, and had him kill her to jumpstart his internal struggle...and then still used the event that started that story arc in the books like 1 or 2 episodes later!

Nah.

Let the CW wannabe waste of time "adaptation" fade into a bad memory.

Yeah, I liked Shannara In spite of its issues. Rings makes it look like a Masterpiece. The Seeker as well for that matter.

 

[Parmandur]

Like sauron not being captured and imprisoned by Numenor.

That's pretty clearly broadcast as the plot of Season 3.