D&D 5E [House Rule] Dropping proficiency bonus

[TwoSix]

Considering the following house rule for the next iteration of my classless 5e hack.

No more proficiency bonus. All d20 checks, you add only the stat mod.

Nonproficient in a weapon, skill: Roll a d12 instead of a d20.
Proficient: Roll a d20 as normal.
Expertise (skills only): Roll a d30.

Features that are "prof mod" per rest will be converted to "stat mod".

To balance the general decrease in accuracy, stats will start slightly higher, scale faster, and several feats and powers will grant accuracy, generally through an extra die (like bless) or some dice shenanigans.

Any other impacts I'm missing?

 

[Charlaquin]

Asking out of curiosity, not as a leading question: what are you hoping to achieve with this house rule?

 

[Maxperson]

Looks good, and I applaud you in coming up with a way to not only make the d12 more useful, but to include the d30 at all.

 

[TwoSix]

Asking out of curiosity, not as a leading question: what are you hoping to achieve with this house rule?

As a general observation, I've noticed that the players that tend to struggle with rules complexity really tend to have problems with adding multiple bonuses to the d20 roll. Even when the numbers are written on their character sheet.

So I'm curious if putting the complexity on the die choice, rather than the math, will help engagement and turn speed.

Less analytically, d12s and d30s are cool and I like using them more.

 

[ezo]

I assume you aren't doing the following:

non-proficient: disadvantage
expertise: advantage

to avoid over-use of adv/dis mechanic and allow PCs with expertise a chance for DC 25+ checks?

Over all, I like the base concept but how else do you show PC improvement in the things they are trying to do?

EDIT: an option might be you cannot roll below your level on the d20 or d30 rolls? True, it makes minor challenges and low AC opponents "automatic", but by the time you are in tiers 3 and 4 shouldn't that sort of be the case??

 

[Charlaquin]

As a general observation, I've noticed that the players that tend to struggle with rules complexity really tend to have problems with adding multiple bonuses to the d20 roll. Even when the numbers are written on their character sheet.

So I'm curious if putting the complexity on the die choice, rather than the math, will help engagement and turn speed.

Less analytically, d12s and d30s are cool and I like using them more.

That makes a lot of sense, I’ve observed such struggles among certain players as well.

This is one thing I think the proficiency die did better than the proficiency bonus. Even though it’s just as much arithmetic, for some reason adding together the results of two die rolls and one flat bonus is more intuitive to some players than adding two different flat bonuses to the results of one die roll.

 

[el-remmen]

My rule about this in my VF5E variant I am working on is actually more complex than standard, so it would not fit your goals, but figured I'd mention it just to share that other folks also tweak that.

In my forthcoming game re-introduced a version of weapon proficiency slots based on class.

• Non-Proficient (aka "Untrained") in a weapon means you have Disadvantage to use it and don't apply your prof bonus.
• Proficient (aka "Trained") in a weapon (costs 1 slot), straight d20 roll modified by ability score. No proficiency bonus.
• Specialized in a weapon (costs an additional slot), you add your prof bonus to attack and damage.
• Mastery in a weapon (costs a third slot and is only accessible by certain classes/subclasses) and unlocks the mastery feature (which can only be use max once per turn).
  
  You can only be specialized in a weapon in which you are proficient and can only gain mastery in a weapon in which you are specialized.
  
  Starting characters still begin with a number of weapons (or weapon groups) that they are proficient in, and some classes begin with 1 to 4 specializations.

 

[TwoSix]

I assume you aren't doing the following:

non-proficient: disadvantage
expertise: advantage

to avoid over-use of adv/dis mechanic and allow PCs with expertise a chance for DC 25+ checks?

100% correct. This allows for Expertise to stack with adv/dis, and gates higher DCs behind prof/expertise.

Over all, I like the base concept but how else do you show PC improvement in the things they are trying to do?

EDIT: an option might be you cannot roll below your level on the d20 or d30 rolls? True, it makes minor challenges and low AC opponents "automatic", but by the time you are in tiers 3 and 4 shouldn't that sort of be the case??

Improvement will generally come from feats and powers the characters gain. A permanent +d4 or +d6 to a certain skill, or an ability like Reliable Talent (all <10 treated as 10, or another number depending on how strong the effect is.)

 

[Horwath]

Looks good, and I applaud you in coming up with a way to not only make the d12 more useful, but to include the d30 at all.

I love the d12 also, It solves some problems of too much spread of results for d20.
So as an easy fix I do d12+4 instead of d20, everything else is the same.
little more crits, but people love crits, so it's a double win.

 

[TwoSix]

My rule about this in my VF5E variant I am working on is actually more complex than standard, so it would not fit your goals, but figured I'd mention it just to share that other folks also tweak that.

In my forthcoming game re-introduced a version of weapon proficiency slots based on class.

• Non-Proficient (aka "Untrained") in a weapon means you have Disadvantage to use it and don't apply your prof bonus.
• Proficient (aka "Trained") in a weapon (costs 1 slot), straight d20 roll modified by ability score. No proficiency bonus.
• Specialized in a weapon (costs an additional slot), you add your prof bonus to attack and damage.
• Mastery in a weapon (costs a third slot and is only accessible by certain classes/subclasses) and unlocks the mastery feature (which can only be use max once per turn).
  
  You can only be specialized in a weapon in which you are proficient and can only gain mastery in a weapon in which you are specialized.
  
  Starting characters still begin with a number of weapons (or weapon groups) that they are proficient in, and some classes begin with 1 to 4 specializations.

Yea, a little more complexity than I need, but definitely good ideas. (I always did like 2e era weapon mastery.)

I'm definitely considering allowing a character who really focuses on one weapon the ability to use a d30 for the attack roll.