Houserule: Vancian spell DCs off of caster level?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Great answers, everyone!


Isn't that kind of dumb, though? Doesn't it make more sense to have fewer spells, but that also scale with level?

I agree. I was only talking about within the core rules.

 

[1Mac]

This is precisely what I do; DC = 10 + 1/2 CL + ability mod + misc

....

I do it in concert with several other variants, including spell points, a simple spell learning system that also ignores spell level, and multiple ability scores for spellcasters (spell points and spell DCs based on different ability scores).

I'd be interested in hearing more about this system.

 

[Bluenose]

You realize that this doesn't increase the DC of their highest level spells, right? (It actually lowers it in some cases). It increases the DC of their lower level spells, but that just gives them a bit more versatility and a few more rounds of usefulness in a day. In practice, it doesn't boost their raw power much.

(The power of high-level fighters is a separate issue).

Yes, I can do the maths. If you're a wizard, at the first level you can learn a spell your save DC for that level of spells will be one point lower. All your other spells will be either equally or more effective than they were when you first gained them. So this made Glitterdust, and Slow, and a host of other low-level spells that have an enormous impact on fights into spells that are harder to save against.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'd be interested in hearing more about this system.

Well, besides the DC thing...

My spell learning is based off of how psionics worked (i.e. you simply get a flat number of spells known and/or spells memorized and you pick what level they are, within the limits of what you can cast). Divine casters are all spontaneous.

All the spell points and spells known are simple mathematical formulas that don't require charts.

My casters have split ability dependencies. For example, clerics use wisdom for spell points but charisma for DCs. Wizards use wisdom for spell points and intelligence for DCs. Sorcerers use charisma for spell points and intelligence for DCs. Occasionally, I shift that around based on the character, but there's always two mental scores that are relevant for each primary caster.

I also replaced XP costs with a combination of other factors.

If you want to read the details, feel free to scroll through my substantial houserule thread and indulge in my vp/wp modifications, my rules on how vp/wp and magic interact, and various other 3.X (emphasis on the X) stuff. I have not updated it in a while and some of the details may be off, but this basically explains it. I don't claim to have perfection but I'm very happy with my system.

 

[billd91]

I've thought about doing this as well. It should make using the lower level spells continue to be an attractive option. Casters won't feel they need to nova the highest level spells for every fight and then rest quite so often - so it fights against the 15 minute adventuring day.

It does, however, also increase the power of the spellcaster a little bit because now they have a larger repertoire of spells equally hard to save against. So I would also propose changing the saves a bit too. Instead of weak saves being 1/3 level, make them 1/2 level (like the save DC). That keeps the defender's ability to save against the spell pacing with the caster's ability to affect them. Strong saves will always be 2 higher than weak saves, and that cuts variation, but I think that's OK.

 

[Celebrim]

I'm wondering what the implications of basing spell DCs off of 1/2 caster level instead of spell level would be. Obviously it makes lower-leveled spells more powerful, but is there anything else I'm missing?

Honestly, I dropped modifiers to save DC based on either spell level or monster HD years ago, and it has worked great. Save DC's are far too high at high levels IMO. I'm a proponent of the 1e model where by the higher you go in level, the more commonly you ought to pass your save. In 3e, all too often, except in a characters 'good saves' the odds of passing a save decreased with level.