How about "Witch" instead of "Warlock"?

[Exen Trik]

As much as I'm getting tired of the phrase, I'm all for sorcerers killing warlocks and taking their stuff.

Warren Warwick, the wild warforged wizard/warlock/warlord whacking a wererat with a warhammer!

...That he got from War-Mart?

 

[Gloombunny]

I like warlock. Warlord is the one that needs to change.

The idea that "witch" is a more gender-neutral option seems really weird to me. I thought the only reason "warlock" is associated with masculinity is because people couldn't use "witch" to refer to men and needed to come up with an alternate term.

 

[variant]

I like warlock, warlord needs to go... Bring back the bard.

 

[Greg K]

Only if we can have a revised Witch class, similar to the one by Bill Muhlhausen in DRAGON #114.

I want it similar to the one in Green Ronin's Witch's Handbook.

 

[WayneLigon]

Also, witch has other important connotations.... cackling old ladies with green faces, dressed like charcoal makers. It's just too silly to throw out there without some context.

Huh? Maybe 50 years ago...

I wouldn't have any problem with calling the class a 'Witch' - in fact I think D&D needs a base arcane class called that - but the common witch archetype doesn't much fit with the warlock's blaster role (If warlocks are going to be much the same as they are now). I'd think a Witch class would fold in some druidic-like abilities or 'invocations', and have some stronger illusion or crafting magic than the warlock does. I'd see the witch as more of a 'controller' than someone who puts out a lot of damage.

Eh, in fact you could rename 'Druid' to 'Witch', give them 'Brew Potion' at first level and I'd be happy

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Whilst I think Warlock needs changing (Warlord is fine, btw, and certainly no good alternative has been proposed, and Marshal was an AWFUL name for an AWFUL class), I don't think Witch is the correct thing to change it to, frankly. Thematically Warlocks are disimilar to even typical fantasy visions of the witch (or modern TV witches, who are much more like D&D's Wizards), and people find the apparent gender-exclusivity of the term witch confusing.

 

[pawsplay]

Huh? Maybe 50 years ago...

I wouldn't have any problem with calling the class a 'Witch' - in fact I think D&D needs a base arcane class called that - but the common witch archetype doesn't much fit with the warlock's blaster role (If warlocks are going to be much the same as they are now). I'd think a Witch class would fold in some druidic-like abilities or 'invocations', and have some stronger illusion or crafting magic than the warlock does. I'd see the witch as more of a 'controller' than someone who puts out a lot of damage.

Eh, in fact you could rename 'Druid' to 'Witch', give them 'Brew Potion' at first level and I'd be happy

I think a proper witch would be a divine caster, wouldn't it?

 

[pawsplay]

Nope.

Witch has absolutely no root that even approaches wise. It comes from wicce which means "a female magician, or sorceress." If you're going to use etymology to make a point, get it from a decent source--not a book or website on Wicca.

How is Mirriam Webster for you?

Etymology: Middle English wicche, from Old English wicca, masculine, wizard & wicce, feminine, witch; akin to Middle High German wicken to bewitch, Old English wigle divination, and perhaps to Old High German wīh holy


In short, divination or lore. I was not making a specious wise -> wicce -> witch etymology, I was pointing out that the base word meant knowledge (or divine magic, apparently). Is that what you were saying?

You are almost correct about Warlock, though "blasphemer" isn't true--and well "libeler"--bear in mind when warlock was in common usage, lies were predominantly "spoken", as opposed to "written", since warlock's couldn't generally write. Didn't see many newspapers and such back then. They were liars though.

You can use "slander" if you wish, or perjurer, or one who bears false witness. I said libel because we are talking about a broken oath, and to make a false statement is libel. But it doesn't matter.

Warlock is one who has broken an oath, who has broken faith. Faith is fidelity. A warlock is unfaithful, or an infidel. A warlock lacks has broken troth, is not faithful, hence, is faithless... a blasphemer.

 

[the_myth]

Nope.

Witch has absolutely no root that even approaches wise. It comes from wicce which means "a female magician, or sorceress." If you're going to use etymology to make a point, get it from a decent source--not a book or website on Wicca.

How about the Oxford English Dictionary (aka the OED) for a reliable source?

The following are abbreviated entries from the 2007 online edition of the source for word histories. In general, most lengthy discussions connect wicce and wicca with weik or wik (mentioned in entry 3 below), which means "to bend." I recall reading in a hardcopy version that it was via connotation that "one who bends" is someone knowledgeable or wise, but I cannot seem to track this via the online OED though. :\ I love the plant connection... [also, FYI, I snipped out a lot and just selected these 3 most a propos entries.]


witch, n.1 Forms: 1 wicca, wycca, 3-6 wiche, etc. (as next). [OE. wicca wk. masc. (see next).] A man who practises witchcraft or magic; a magician, sorcerer, wizard. See also WHITE WITCH.

witch, n.2 Forms: 1-2 wicce, wycce, 2-6 wicche, 3 wichche, 3-4 wychche, 3-5 wycche, 3-6 wiche, 4-5 wyche, wech, 4-6 wich, wytche, wych, 4-7 witche, 5-6 weche, (4 wecch, Sc. wesch-, wisch-, 4, 6 which(e, 5 whitche, wheche, 6 wytch, Sc. vytche, vyche, weyche), 6- witch. [OE. wicce fem., corresponding to wicca WITCH n.1, both of which are app. derivatives of wiccian WITCH v.1] 1. a. A female magician, sorceress; in later use esp. a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits and to be able by their co-operation to perform supernatural acts. See also WHITE WITCH.

witch, wych, n.3 Forms: 1 wice, wic, wyc, 5-7 wyche, 6-8 wich, (6 wi(t)che, wiech, wech(e, weach, 7 weech), 6- wych, witch. [OE. wice and wic; app. f. Teut. wik- to bend (see WIKE, WEEK n., WEAK a.).] pplied generally or vaguely to various trees having pliant branches: esp. {dag}a. the WYCH ELM, Ulmus montana (of which bows were made); b. (now dial.) the mountain ash, Pyrus aucuparia. Also attrib.; witch alder, a witch hazel with alder-like leaves, Fothergilla alnifolia, native to Virginia and North Carolina. (See also WITCH HAZEL.)

 

[Felon]

I think a proper witch would be a divine caster, wouldn't it?

By what token? Does "proper" mean historical? Most forms of magic involve theurgy--the invocation of higher powers--as opposed to just pulling ambient energy from the air by some act of will. The Hermetic Order, for instance, has its share of roots in establishing the modern image of the wizard, even though that was a spiritual organization.