How about "Witch" instead of "Warlock"?

[robotron666]

I like warlock. Warlord is the one that needs to change.

The idea that "witch" is a more gender-neutral option seems really weird to me. I thought the only reason "warlock" is associated with masculinity is because people couldn't use "witch" to refer to men and needed to come up with an alternate term.

I agree, personally I'd prefer warlock to witch, but I'd rather use a name like Thane or Reeve in my own private campaign rather than Warlord.

Great thing about D&D home-brews, you can season to taste.

 

[WayneLigon]

I think a proper witch would be a divine caster, wouldn't it?

Depends on the way you want to go with it. I generally see them as arcane casters, subjugating or making deals with spirits rather than allying with them so much. Or you could go the modernistic 'druidic' model which would certainly be a divine caster, drawing down power from a trinity of god-figures. In folklore they go back and forth across that line; so maybe a bard variant might be the best way to deal with them, giving them a unique spell list drawing from both arcane and divine spells.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I guess if I had my preference, I'd call the "fiendish" caster a "sorcerer," because, at least for me, the traditional definition of sorcery is magic from a more malevolent source. But I guess I don't mind so much - although both classes begin with "warlo," they are different enough for me that I don't seem to get confused.

 

[pawsplay]

By what token? Does "proper" mean historical? Most forms of magic involve theurgy--the invocation of higher powers--as opposed to just pulling ambient energy from the air by some act of will. The Hermetic Order, for instance, has its share of roots in establishing the modern image of the wizard, even though that was a spiritual organization.

Well, sure. I was thinking along the lines of:

- Good at curses and removing them
- Aligned to some kind of metaphysical force
- Wisdom as a casting stat
- Heal as a class skill
- Probably decent hit dice

But it's kind of arbitrary. Honestly, it depends on the game system whether the arcane/divine distinction even makes sense. Even in D&D, there is plenty of crossing over. Wizards, in Dragonlance, are essentially a kind of priest, while clerics in Dark Sun are a sort of collegiate magician.

 

[Felon]

Well, sure. I was thinking along the lines of:

- Good at curses and removing them
- Aligned to some kind of metaphysical force
- Wisdom as a casting stat
- Heal as a class skill
- Probably decent hit dice

But it's kind of arbitrary. Honestly, it depends on the game system whether the arcane/divine distinction even makes sense. Even in D&D, there is plenty of crossing over. Wizards, in Dragonlance, are essentially a kind of priest, while clerics in Dark Sun are a sort of collegiate magician.

Right, it is kind of arbitrary. Personally, I think the appropriate way to handle warlocks and witches is to have them be arcane spellcaster that learn their powers through congress with metaphysical forces (ancestral spirits, fey spirits, fiendish spirits, or what have you), as opoosed to learning them from tomes (as wizards) or from innate powers (as sorcerers). Thus, those forces provde the secrets to accessing a source of arcane power, rather than directly acting as a divine power source. This syncs up with their historical flavor, and it makes them more distinct from sorcerers than they currently are now.

And this is where familiars could be brought back in to 4e in some fashion. Don't give familiars to wziards. Give them to warlocks and witches--they're the ones who are supposed to have them anyway. Familiars act as a conduit between the witch and the spirit world, helping them learn new spells. The spirit shaman from Complete Divine had an interesting take on this.

 

[Choronzon]

How about the Oxford English Dictionary (aka the OED) for a reliable source?

The following are abbreviated entries from the 2007 online edition of the source for word histories. In general, most lengthy discussions connect wicce and wicca with weik or wik (mentioned in entry 3 below), which means "to bend." I recall reading in a hardcopy version that it was via connotation that "one who bends" is someone knowledgeable or wise, but I cannot seem to track this via the online OED though. :\ I love the plant connection... [also, FYI, I snipped out a lot and just selected these 3 most a propos entries.]


witch, n.1 Forms: 1 wicca, wycca, 3-6 wiche, etc. (as next). [OE. wicca wk. masc. (see next).] A man who practises witchcraft or magic; a magician, sorcerer, wizard. See also WHITE WITCH.

witch, n.2 Forms: 1-2 wicce, wycce, 2-6 wicche, 3 wichche, 3-4 wychche, 3-5 wycche, 3-6 wiche, 4-5 wyche, wech, 4-6 wich, wytche, wych, 4-7 witche, 5-6 weche, (4 wecch, Sc. wesch-, wisch-, 4, 6 which(e, 5 whitche, wheche, 6 wytch, Sc. vytche, vyche, weyche), 6- witch. [OE. wicce fem., corresponding to wicca WITCH n.1, both of which are app. derivatives of wiccian WITCH v.1] 1. a. A female magician, sorceress; in later use esp. a woman supposed to have dealings with the devil or evil spirits and to be able by their co-operation to perform supernatural acts. See also WHITE WITCH.

witch, wych, n.3 Forms: 1 wice, wic, wyc, 5-7 wyche, 6-8 wich, (6 wi(t)che, wiech, wech(e, weach, 7 weech), 6- wych, witch. [OE. wice and wic; app. f. Teut. wik- to bend (see WIKE, WEEK n., WEAK a.).] pplied generally or vaguely to various trees having pliant branches: esp. {dag}a. the WYCH ELM, Ulmus montana (of which bows were made); b. (now dial.) the mountain ash, Pyrus aucuparia. Also attrib.; witch alder, a witch hazel with alder-like leaves, Fothergilla alnifolia, native to Virginia and North Carolina. (See also WITCH HAZEL.)

The OED is a perfectly good source, but you're using the etymology of two different words--witch, as in "any of several trees having pliant branches-- and witch, as in "wizard, sorcerer". They both come from different roots, and are not etymologically linked.

Now when Gerald Gardner coined the term wicca, he tried to join the two meanings so that he can use a term who's definition was essentially "devil-worshipping spell-caster" for something cute and fluffy like "sweet girl who twirls around sky-clad and loves the goddess." Essentially, he was trying to change the definintion of witch. Only history will tell if he ever succeeds or not.

Now pawsplay, I can see where you're going with the whole divination=wise, and concede the point, though I still think witch=wise is a VERY long stretch.

Personally, I think Witch or Warlock works perfectly fine as the name of the class, and in 3rd edition I called my female Warlocks "Witches." Realistically, we can argue etymology all day long, but the words still invoke certain images in peoples minds when they are used--and I think for the purpose of D&D, that is the most important defintion.

I think the flavor of the class fits pretty well with the old european idea of the Witch or Warlock.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

But WoW doesn't have witches!

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Don't know how germane it is to the topic- since it may have been more of a TSR knee-jerk reaction to the PC era than anything else- but back in the day TSR made a bunch of changes to class names presumably for fear of offending the Wicca movement. From Wicca to Witch-Doctor to Wokan (which they finally settled on). At least in OD&D.

Now, again, that was at the time the MADD (Mothers Against D&D) had pressured them into pulling the Demons/Devils from the game and the Tanar'ri/Baatezu emerged. WotC doesn't seem to have nearly the same difficulties with PR, so it may not be an issue.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Huh? Maybe 50 years ago...

Hmm... try a Google image search for "witch" and you'll get a good amount of pointy hats and broomsticks (about half), most of which are ugly old/green women.

 

[Keldryn]

I think that they should rename the Fighter class "Warrior."

A Warforged Warrior/Warlord/Warlock would be awesome.