D&D General How are locks so hard to open?

MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
Unfortunately they didn't make it much of a meaningful choice, but rather the option of last resort. Using Thieves Tools should always be the designed ideal option, as it costs no resources and has minimal consequence (unless you failed to notice a trap). Knock has the resource cost of a 2nd level spell slot, so while you'll always succeed, you're paying for it. With the 5E "ringing the dinner bell" mechanic, you're paying a resource and suffering a consequence for using it. The only time it's useful is when you don't have the time to break down the door, or for whatever reason the door is nigh unbreakable. IMO they should have either left off the "dinner bell" mechanic or they should have made it a ritual.
I've wanted to try to use knock as a divine soul (or a multiclass with bard/cleric) with silence and subtle spell. (silence the area and then cast knock which can be done with subtle) I haven't found a game where it can be done, but I'd argue that the combo ought to work. My arguments are that knock is written that way so casters can't casually replace a rogue/thief in the party, but it takes a lot of build opportunity cost to make a sorcerer in this way (either by choosing the one subclass with silence or by losign three levels to bard or cleric, and on top of using one of the limited metamagic choices on subtle spell, and neither silence nor knock cna be easly retrained) and it costs two spells and one sorcery point a pop, so it is not unearned. Anyway, that would be my argument, but finding a game is hard enough as it is.
 

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UngainlyTitan

Legend
Supporter
Locks are hard to open because of the lack of WD40 in D&D.


Seriously though, it is more of a genre trope. In D&D when they started to give odds on opening locks, they made it hard. In part because everything that had a test at the time was hard. The movie, TV trope where the hero can open a lock with picks faster than I can open my door with a key never impacted D&D.
 

Warpiglet-7

Cry havoc! And let slip the pigs of war!
I read an article suggesting that older D&D dungeons are not just places, they are mythic Cthonic underworld places that people are not welcome in. It works differently for the surface people who do not belong than it does for the underground denizens.

People need torches and light, everybody who is a monster does not need light.

Doors are heavy and stuck and need to be forced open with a strength mechanic check for PCs but monsters are not impeded.

1e DMG page 97

"Doors: As a rule of thumb, all doors are hard to open and hard to keep closed or open for player characters, while inhabitants of the dungeon find little difficulty in these regards. Regardless of how a door opens, it is usual that its weight and condition require that force be used to swiftly operate it. This is represented by the roll of d6 for each person involved in pushing, pulling, lifting, sliding, or whatever. A roll of 1 or 2 typically indicates success, anything above indicates the door still remains unopened. (Cf. PLAYERS HANDBOOK, Character Abilities, Strength.) Very heavy doors might reduce chances by half. Locked doors might only open if two or even three simultaneous 1’s are rolled. Most doors are about 8’ wide, and this allows up to three characters to attempt opening. A door of 3’ or less width allows but a single character to make an attempt. If wooden doors (always metal bound, naturally) are broken down by axes and the like, it will take some time — a full turn is usual — and require at least 3 checks to see if nearby and/or wandering monsters are attracted by the noise. Doors can also be blasted away by fireballs and other spells, for example. This will not be likely to draw monsters to the vicinity immediately. Any such destruction will, however, attract the attention of all passing creatures and possibly cause future problems. Intelligent dungeon inhabitants will certainly make efforts to repair damage if it is in their interest to do so. Finally, metal doors (usually locked) will be very difficult to open, requiring a knock spell or similar means most of the time."

Moldvay Basic (B/X) page B21

"Doors
NORMAL DOORS: Doors in a dungeon are usually closed, and are often stuck or locked. A lock must usually be picked by a thief. An unlocked door must be forced open to pass through it. To force open a door, roll Id6; a result of 1 or 2 (on 1d6) means that the door is forced open. The roll should be adjusted by a character's Strength score adjustment. The number needed to open a door can never be less than 1 nor greater than 1-5.
Once a door is opened, it will usually swing shut when released unless it is spiked or wedged open. Doors will usually open automatically for monsters, unless the door is held, spiked, or closed with magical spells."

The dungeon itself fights you.
This is very interesting.

I was thinking about this in the last few days…telling players that it’s a natural law that dark attracts dark and light, light. In other words bad places and creatures draw bad things to them, hence dungeons full of disparate creatures can happen.

I mean and orc stronghold does not need this to be—-but some classic dungeons make more sense this way.

I like the idea that the place itself become an opponent! Doors stick, etc.
 

Me, my wife and kids are playing Sunless Citadel. I'm also building the dungeon with XPS foam. I didn't think they would be able to unlock the door that leads to south western halls. I was wrong and didn't build those rooms lol. They didn't get too far though and decided to go another way. I will not underestimate their skills again though.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
This is very interesting.

I was thinking about this in the last few days…telling players that it’s a natural law that dark attracts dark and light, light. In other words bad places and creatures draw bad things to them, hence dungeons full of disparate creatures can happen.

I mean and orc stronghold does not need this to be—-but some classic dungeons make more sense this way.

I like the idea that the place itself become an opponent! Doors stick, etc.

In 13th Age, aren't the great dungeons actually "living things"?

For 5e, in the Goodman B2 reincarnation,
there is "an ancient theme dedicated to a long forgotten god of chaos. The evil of [that] unholy place is what attracts evil humanoids and other evil clergy to the Caves.
and it also notes
there are various tribal alliances and warfare, the monsters learn from experience, and the emptied areas refill over time
.
 

Warpiglet-7

Cry havoc! And let slip the pigs of war!
Me, my wife and kids are playing Sunless Citadel. I'm also building the dungeon with XPS foam. I didn't think they would be able to unlock the door that leads to south western halls. I was wrong and didn't build those rooms lol. They didn't get too far though and decided to go another way. I will not underestimate their skills again though.
I have a full foam dungeon we used for that!
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
That's crazy, but at the same time, kind of neat in concept. I wonder why that description of dungeons and why they are the way there are got forgotten; the only example off the top of my head for a dungeon that works like that would be possibly Undermountain.
Judges Guild modules work this way, as do most OSR dungeons.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
For 5e, in the Goodman B2 reincarnation,
there is "an ancient theme dedicated to a long forgotten god of chaos. The evil of [that] unholy place is what attracts evil humanoids and other evil clergy to the Caves.
and it also notes
there are various tribal alliances and warfare, the monsters learn from experience, and the emptied areas refill over time
.
The first spoiler was always a popular head canon about B2 and I believe Gygax explicitly stated the second spoiler -- at the very least, it was explicitly how dungeons in BD&D and AD&D were supposed to work. They were never truly static.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
The first spoiler was always a popular head canon about B2 and I believe Gygax explicitly stated the second spoiler -- at the very least, it was explicitly how dungeons in BD&D and AD&D were supposed to work. They were never truly static.
The second spoiler looks copied pretty closely from the original B2. I couldn't find a quote in the original B2 to go with the first, but it seems obvious and I very well could have missed it.
 

Warpiglet-7

Cry havoc! And let slip the pigs of war!
Me, my wife and kids are playing Sunless Citadel. I'm also building the dungeon with XPS foam. I didn't think they would be able to unlock the door that leads to south western halls. I was wrong and didn't build those rooms lol. They didn't get too far though and decided to go another way. I will not underestimate their skills again though.

I planned a “con” for my family and friends but the pandemic hit. We have barely used this stuff since my friends have dm’d and I have just been playing.

But I used my prototype for sunless citadel. I used spray paint on foam and melted it but used the “rough walls.” I hand painted these with modpodge and paint mixed. Durable!

1666456516938.jpeg
 

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