D&D 5E (2024) How can I do a Charisma-Investigation (or a Strength/Dexterity-Investigation if I can't use Charisma) to find a secret door?

[DrJawaPhD]

I mean, RAW, the player is supposed to describe what their character is doing- then the DM calls for what kind of check they think it is. That's not how it ends up playing out, because the player knows what their PC is good at and wants to make use of that, buuut.. I get it. Players want to maximize their chances of success/minimize failure.

I've always seen it play out this way in practice. Players say what they attempt to do, then the DM either says it works with no skillcheck or decides what skillcheck to roll (often giving multiple options for the player to pick between). Players can always make suggestions but that's all it is, a suggestion

Phrasing what you attempt to do in a way that best utilizes your character's skills is totally fine (even realistic in many cases), but once you commit to doing an action you're locked in before you find out what skillcheck the DM calls for

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah we don't usually do that, and I think it is kind of a violation of player agency.

Back when I first started playing A LOT of 5E, I was worried about story inconsistencies - "Mike just randomly found us on the 4th level of an exctremely complex dungeon on the other side of a one way portal we turned off when we came through"

In actual play though that kind of thing has turned out fine. When you have fire breathing Dragons and spells that take you to another plane, the lack of Verisimilitude that results from running into "Mike" just doesn't seem to be a big deal.

It can only be a violation of agency if the players aren't on board. What it does is avoid ridiculousness like the rogue staring vacantly at a wall while the rest of you fight for your lives, and also while a bunch of dumbos try to find secret doors. It makes no sense in the fiction for it to be that way.

 

[Maxperson]

Strength is usually my Dump stat, and Constitution is usually my secondary dump stat. In this case it is Intelligence and Wisdom though because I really need a Strength of at least 13 for heavy weapons and I will be on the front line and felt I needed a 12 Constitution.

The PC is a point buy Fighter 1/Warlock 4 currently with S15 D14 C12 I8 W8 CH18

This is why dump stats are a bad idea. No stat is dumpable, because all are important. If one of my PCs has a low stat, it's because it was unavoidable, not because I dumped it.

You guys all chose to be incompetent at finding secret doors when the rogue isn't there, you kinda have to just deal with that. Actions have consequences.

 

[Reef]

This is why dump stats are a bad idea. No stat is dumpable, because all are important. If one of my PCs has a low stat, it's because it was unavoidable, not because I dumped it.

You guys all chose to be incompetent at finding secret doors when the rogue isn't there, you kinda have to just deal with that. Actions have consequences.

I’m sorry, but this is really the answer. You chose to maximize your strengths at the cost in certain areas, and now are confronted with those. Work around it in game, don’t try to alter the rules so you can have your cake and eat it too.

High charisma? Go back to town and hire an expert npc. Or spend an afternoon gathering info in the local bars and find some old clues or a map.

Or, if a key player is missing, just don’t play for a week or two. Or do a quick side quest that somehow furthers the plot without any secret doors.

 

[Amphytrion]

I'm shocked this is a real question. From the title of the thread I had assumed it was tongue-in-cheek.

I'm also shocked at those here that claim that Intelligence isn't a worthwhile ability. Intelligence checks are probably the most important ones in general at my table, so that is really a testament to how differently we play.

I don't have any good advice for OP except to roleplay the scores he chose and have fun with it. This is, after all, a roleplaying game.

 

[ECMO3]

It can only be a violation of agency if the players aren't on board. What it does is avoid ridiculousness like the rogue staring vacantly at a wall while the rest of you fight for your lives, and also while a bunch of dumbos try to find secret doors. It makes no sense in the fiction for it to be that way.

Oh I would never be on board with someone else playing my player character. Not to mention my characters are generally extremely complex and playing them is difficult if you don't understand how they are put together.

We ran into a magic mirror that created an evil duplicate that attacked the party. The DM looked at my character sheet and said "why did this have to be [me] that looked into the mirror".

The Rogue does not stare vacantly at the wall. He is just flat not there when his player is not there. And in a world with extensive magic it is easily explainable and not even close to the biggest thing that makes no sense in the fiction.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm shocked this is a real question. From the title of the thread I had assumed it was tongue-in-cheek.

I'm also shocked at those here that claim that Intelligence isn't a worthwhile ability. Intelligence checks are probably the most important ones in general at my table, so that is really a testament to how differently we play.

I don't have any good advice for OP except to roleplay the scores he chose and have fun with it. This is, after all, a roleplaying game.

We are having fun, and part of the post is that I can't figure out how to do a Charisma-Investigation. I am looking for some ideas and inspiration.

We have done Strength-Investivation, mostly by tossing a room looking for something.

 

[ECMO3]

I’m sorry, but this is really the answer. You chose to maximize your strengths at the cost in certain areas, and now are confronted with those. Work around it in game, don’t try to alter the rules so you can have your cake and eat it too.

I get, but this character was point buy and started out with one 17, one 15, one 14, one 12 and two 8s. So she did not min-max a whole lot.

Or, if a key player is missing, just don’t play for a week or two

BLASPHEMY!

You might as well tell me to give up a kidney or my first born.

 

[Demetrios1453]

We are having fun, and part of the post is that I can't figure out how to do a Charisma-Investigation. I am looking for some ideas and inspiration.

We have done Strength-Investivation, mostly by tossing a room looking for something.

The only way I could see a Charisma-Investigation would be if what you are investigating has some sort of sentience you can influence. Maybe you're investigating the door of an illithid vessel or something, so the door possesses at least some sentience in a way...

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I don't think Charisma makes sense for Investigation. Besides Wisdom Perception is what is used to find Secret doors does everyone have terrible perception too?