How can I intentionally lose levels??

[Shaele]

--BiggusGeekus--
But why do it at all? He's the only wizard in town who can take care of his own paper cuts!
----
Great question. I guess I'm just tired to being far behind the rest of the group in terms of power. My character is the only arcane caster (druid, ranger, monk and me), so I feel the pressure to be able to cast higher level spells. Taking on CR13 creatures is difficult when your biggest offensive push is a 5th level spell (cast as a 9th level wizard).

3e has definitely taught me that multiclassing casters (past maybe one level of something else for flavor) _really_ hurts the characters long-term potential. If I was to do it again, I'd definitely keep 1 clerical level for flavor and sink the rest into wizard. Being able to cast a couple of 2nd level clerical spells doesn't compensate for the loss of your highest level spells (i.e. only casting 5th instead of 6th level wizard spells).

Long-term, we want to take this party to Epic levels. With 3 clerical levels, he can't hit more than 17th level as a wizard, which means one 9th level spell. Since natural spellcasting progression stops at 20th level, I can't _ever_ make up the loss of wizard spells. If we were only looking at playing for a short-term campaign it wouldn't bother me as much, but we're talking about stretching this campaign over a few more years.

Thanks for all of the suggestions folks, but I think I'm stuck with a slightly gimped wizard. Divine intervention doesn't make sense to me from a rp perspective - my character's quite devout, and thinks of himself as working Oghma's will. It's not so much that he "wants" to distance himself from his deity, but - from a pure metagaming perspective - I'm tired of feeling gimped

 

[Dr_Rictus]

My character is the only arcane caster (druid, ranger, monk and me), so I feel the pressure to be able to cast higher level spells.

And yet, your character can still do all sorts of things that none of them can do. It won't hurt to keep that in mind.

You should also keep in mind that "being able to cast a couple 2nd level clerical spells" isn't the be-all of multiclassing. If you're going to have to make the most of it, then make the most of it. Access to the cleric spell list means you can use wands of all manner of useful spells, and you have at least a fair shot at managing even a 5th level spell (like raise dead) from a scroll. Those aren't outlandish items at all for a 12th-level party, and there are some very useful things in that range of cleric spells that druids and rangers cannot do.

 

[Kai Lord]

Just switch the levels and be done with it. Your character was converted from a previous edition; of course there is a learning process in how best to accomplish this. Don't penalize the character concept by allowing him to be less powerful than he should be or by actually roleplaying some silly quest to hunt for a vampire or some other such beast.

Trade two cleric levels for wizard and call it good. Then just have fun playing the character.

 

[Shaele]

And yet, your character can still do all sorts of things that none of them can do. It won't hurt to keep that in mind.

<snip>Access to the cleric spell list means you can use wands of all manner of useful spells, and you have at least a fair shot at managing even a 5th level spell (like raise dead) from a scroll. Those aren't outlandish items at all for a 12th-level party<snip>

Great points, and I generally agree. Part of the reason I like this character is his versatility: I created him as a scholar and hedge-wizard, hoping to bolster his spellcasting with potions and clerical scrolls (he has Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll and Craft Wondrous Item - I envisioned him making curative potions, one-shot charged items etc.)

Unfortunately, reliance on items hasn't worked in our campaign. We don't normally have time in-game to craft items or potions, so those feats are generally wasted. Also, we haven't had the option of purchasing items higher-level items: buying a clerical staff or any high-level scrolls just hasn't wasn't possible. This has had a huge effect on my character, obviously. I can live with unused-feats, but it feels like a "double-whammy" - both the feats and clerical levels are of minimal benefit.

Originally posted by Kai Lord
Just switch the levels and be done with it.

I'm inclined to agree, since just switching from a clr3/wiz9 to a clr1/wiz11, would free him up to cast higher-level spells without compromising the character concept. I was hoping their might be some in-game precident that I could propose to the DM though, instead of "Shaele wakes up and feels mighty"

 

[Dr_Rictus]

We don't normally have time in-game to craft items or potions, so those feats are generally wasted.

Ugh. I hate it when that happens. I mean, even in the army you spend most of your time waiting. Why do so many games use a whole series of crises that must be addressed now?

 

[AuraSeer]

Long-term, we want to take this party to Epic levels. With 3 clerical levels, he can't hit more than 17th level as a wizard, which means one 9th level spell. Since natural spellcasting progression stops at 20th level, I can't _ever_ make up the loss of wizard spells.

I don't think that's correct. Spellcasting progression stops at 20th class level. If you work your way up to Wiz20/Clr3, you'll have the same wizard spells as any other Wiz20.

...unless I'm entirely wrong. But I don't think I am.

 

[Rackhir]

I think you may be worrying too much about the wizard you are only giving up 1 seventh, 1 eighth and 2 ninth lv slots. That's hardly crippling. You do get a substantial number of bonus epic level feats as a wizard which you can use for epic level spell slots which can be used for lower level spells as well.

The item creation feats are more of a liability especially if you never have time to use them.

If you have your heart set on this, many DMs do offer "amnesties" for changing things like this about their character given that he is a conversion from an earlier edition of D&D then you would have a strong case for switching things around somewhat.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I agree with what Kai Lord said. Your DM needs to be persuaded that it is really quite fair and well worth it to allow you to re-convert your character from 2e. Clearly your character is severely crippled by the way it was converted.

 

[Taluron]

======
Long-term, we want to take this party to Epic levels. With 3 clerical levels, he can't hit more than 17th level as a wizard, which means one 9th level spell. Since natural spellcasting progression stops at 20th level, I can't _ever_ make up the loss of wizard spells.
-----------
I don't think that's correct. Spellcasting progression stops at 20th class level. If you work your way up to Wiz20/Clr3, you'll have the same wizard spells as any other Wiz20.

...unless I'm entirely wrong. But I don't think I am.
------------
If using the Epic Level Handbook you are correct. Shaele doesn't say specifically but does mention Epic levels so I imagine that's what they intend to use. You'll be able to get to Wiz20 at character level 23.

I agree with what someone else was saying. Go find some arcane/divine staffs to use until you get to higher levels. If you can't make them yourself, try comissioning them in a town you know you'll be returning to in a month or so. Or do some research, find out who's got the item you want and get the party to help you retrieve it.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

Clearly your character is severely crippled by the way it was converted.

"Severely crippled" would be if your wizard had, for example, no arms.

Being 3 wizard levels down from the rest of the party, on the other hand, is the kind of "clearly severely crippled" character I've seen in plenty of parties simply because not everybody was the same level. That is to say, the pretend kind.