How Come There Is No "Wish" Spell?

[med stud]

Okay. So... what does the genie's ability look like?

What can the genie do? I think wishes from genies/efreets/elves (<-Nordic folklore) should be about the creature doing what it can do, not the creature casting wish. There is an example in the Quran where Salomo commands one of his djinns to go get the throne of the queen of Saba. The djinn gets the throne and returns in under a second. For Aladdin it would look like the throne appeared into thin air. If you wish for riches, the djinn gets you riches. If you wish for help in defeating a certain creature, the djinn buffs you up. Etc etc.

 

[Klaus]

And you might slap in a few Disney limitations:
- No wishing for more wishes;
- No killing;
- No returning people from the dead;
- No making people fall in love.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Eh, it's like item creation. Do it before your next level rise, then reap extra XP for being lower level. IIRC, the XP difference between levels on the higher end is quite extreme, so it's not hurting that much, it's more of a psychological barrier.

If you work out the maths, you don't get that much more from being a lower level, and - get this - you are a lower level which can be a big issue.

I'm not sure what you mean by the xp difference between levels on the higher end is 'quite extreme', since it still takes the same number of equivalent CR encounters to go up a level, but you are burning 4 encounters worth of xp on a wish. It is almost by definition counter-productive to use a wish because you'll use up far more resources than you gain from the victory... which makes it a fine last ditch remedy, but rubbish as a routine option as the person I was replying to was implying.

Cheers

 

[Acid_crash]

I am glad that it's gone. I never liked it, never used it, and always banned it from my spellslists when i ran games... Now I don't have to houserule it out.

Good times.

 

[Uzzy]

I'm sad it's gone. I liked the spell. It felt to me that when your Wizard finally got to 9th Level, and had access to spells like Time Stop and Wish, he was getting somewhere. Finally being able to alter reality and bend it to his will, doing more then just bigger and better versions of fireball. That appealed to me.

 

[0bsolete]

I will not miss the players having access to it, but I will miss those wonderful times when the players had to maneuver around an evil outsider with a wish.

To be honest, I will most likely make sure that those tasty head hanchos of the demons and devils still get to play with it. Of course, my players are wary of wish and rightly so since the time in AD&D when we had a player who went insane and thought he was Asmodeous. Then of course, eventually he took a visit and was in a humorous mood and gave the offender a wish. Oh the fun.

 

[JohnSnow]

What can the genie do? I think wishes from genies/efreets/elves (<-Nordic folklore) should be about the creature doing what it can do, not the creature casting wish. There is an example in the Quran where Salomo commands one of his djinns to go get the throne of the queen of Saba. The djinn gets the throne and returns in under a second. For Aladdin it would look like the throne appeared into thin air. If you wish for riches, the djinn gets you riches. If you wish for help in defeating a certain creature, the djinn buffs you up. Etc etc.

That's exactly what I was trying to say. "If you free me, I shall grant you 3 wishes" places a geas on the magical creature in question. You make a request, and it fulfills it - to the extent possible using its own magical powers.

So if someone wishes for riches and it can't create gold, it just steals it from someone. The magical creature itself would obviously have limits to what it could do - which it could spell out the way the Genie did in Aladdin. For instance, creature who lacks "raise dead" would say "no bringing people back to life." On the other hand, if it had necromantic magic, it might neglect to mention that limitation and just bring your beloved back as a zombie.

For instance, if you wish to become "King of X," it might take a while. The genie could arrange for there to be a contest for the princess's hand (by charming the king or the princess), which the genie arranges for the PC to win (by interfering in the contest, buffing the PC, hexing the others, and so on), and then arrange for the king to die. Now you're king, but maybe the princess is a powerful sorceress...or maybe the genie kills the princess and takes her place. Now you're king, but you only stay king until the genie decides it's bored and kills you. This makes it a true instance of "be careful what you wish for." In other words, simple requests (things they can just "magick up") they'll just grant, but if you get too greedy, you invite mischief.

That's how I think it should work.

Boons from the fey have always worked that way. And don't get me started on people who make pacts with devils.

 

[qstor]

I never liked wish. Possibly from playing with a DM who loved to interpret player statements in the worst possible manner (which was not limited to wish).

It was far too open-ended. So much so, it barely counted as a rule. 3e's attempt to clean up limted wish and wish by giving a fuller account of what is possible was a good effort but it's probably better to just remove it.

I disagree. It's a "classic" fantasy spell and power. I think it worked fine. I can't see what they're going to do to replace it. I'm finding more reasons not to like 4e.

Mike

 

[Geron Raveneye]

Re: JohnSnow

That's why I like the description of the Djinn (for example) from the 1E MM more than that from the 3E MM. The former gives a lot more in terms of what the djinn will actually be able to do as services, the latter gives mostly combat advice, and a small paragraph about spell-like abilities without much advice about the whole service business.
It's like the bodak...more flavour text is sometimes better than more combat text.

 

[Decivre]

Now admittedly I am a bit sad they are getting rid of wish, I have to say I agree with the decision to do so. Plot devices should be plot devices, not earnable abilities. I'm tired of wizards and clerics who eventually earn the "f*** the DMs challenges right in the ear!" power at 17th level. Besides, Wish took away from the flavor of being a wizard. A wizard is a guy who spends his lifetime pouring through tomes to find the answers he seeks for any situation, not a guy that just screams "I WISH FOR A PILE OF WIZARD SCROLLS WHICH ALL HAPPEN TO NOT BE IN MY SPELLBOOK!!!!!". All in all, I think we're better off without it, because now a wizard is stuck researching different things all over again.