D&D 5E How Complex is D&D Next?
- Thread starter GX.Sigma
- Start date
Sadrik
First Post
It is hard to look at the overall system and say yes this is too complex or no this is not complex enough. Different people interface with the system from different angles.
From the character design angle I don't like class features at every level. They seem to me like they are hardwired mini-abilities. I would do class design differently. Give them their main schtick and then let players buy into complexity if they want to. So classes, are pretty straight forward though. The only complexity is the class features which add a lot of little fiddly abilities. about the same as 3e, more complex than 1e or 2e.
From the combat side I think advantage/disadvantage simplifies things in some ways but also makes them a little more complex because modifiers still also exist and so you have to determine if it is a modifier disadvantage or a disadvantage to the roll etc. With time this will be ingrained. But at least initially it will be a problem. Also there are less conditions, not because these conditions dont exist but because they become special conditions in the rules or under the spell. I would like to see these pulled out of the rules and referenced. Encumbered, boom look up what encumbered, asleep look up asleep on and on and on. More simple than 1e, 2e and 3e.
Monsters, xp, and dungeon properties. These seem pretty straightforward for the DM. So more simple than 3e, more complex than 1e and 2e.
From the character design angle I don't like class features at every level. They seem to me like they are hardwired mini-abilities. I would do class design differently. Give them their main schtick and then let players buy into complexity if they want to. So classes, are pretty straight forward though. The only complexity is the class features which add a lot of little fiddly abilities. about the same as 3e, more complex than 1e or 2e.
From the combat side I think advantage/disadvantage simplifies things in some ways but also makes them a little more complex because modifiers still also exist and so you have to determine if it is a modifier disadvantage or a disadvantage to the roll etc. With time this will be ingrained. But at least initially it will be a problem. Also there are less conditions, not because these conditions dont exist but because they become special conditions in the rules or under the spell. I would like to see these pulled out of the rules and referenced. Encumbered, boom look up what encumbered, asleep look up asleep on and on and on. More simple than 1e, 2e and 3e.
Monsters, xp, and dungeon properties. These seem pretty straightforward for the DM. So more simple than 3e, more complex than 1e and 2e.
tuxgeo
Adventurer
Yaarel
🇮🇱 🇺🇦 He-Mage
Yeah! Now it is: 1-5-21-4-2
It seems like they hit the sweet spot in terms of complexity.
I might prefer a couple of things here or there, smooth a complexity in one place, or subdivide an oversimplification in an other place. But all in all, it seems optimal.
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Libramarian
Adventurer
Trending towards being too simple to play and too complex to DM.
3e/4e charop is undeniably something that a lot of people find very fun. That sort of fun is what WotC knows how to do well. I think they should be wary about simplifying PCs too much. They might end up with an edition that is the "dog with two butts" between old and new D&D.
I know almost nothing about the DM advice that will be included in Next, but I have a feeling it's going to be half-assed and nonsensical like "tell the players a story where they act the part of the protagonists" and "be fair and impartial but ignore the dice when you feel like it"
3e/4e charop is undeniably something that a lot of people find very fun. That sort of fun is what WotC knows how to do well. I think they should be wary about simplifying PCs too much. They might end up with an edition that is the "dog with two butts" between old and new D&D.
I know almost nothing about the DM advice that will be included in Next, but I have a feeling it's going to be half-assed and nonsensical like "tell the players a story where they act the part of the protagonists" and "be fair and impartial but ignore the dice when you feel like it"
DMZ2112
Chaotic Looseleaf
If D&D Next is a dog with two butts, you'd better hand me that pooper scooper.
howandwhy99
Adventurer
I probably could have voted: Other, in retrospect.
There is only 1 answer for those liking the system which doesn't judge. That might be the reason so many have picked option 3. There are a lot of different preferences on this board. It's surprising when that doesn't show up in a poll.
There is only 1 answer for those liking the system which doesn't judge. That might be the reason so many have picked option 3. There are a lot of different preferences on this board. It's surprising when that doesn't show up in a poll.
Li Shenron
Legend
I agree, it's still more complex than it needs to be.
5e is following a great approach to make it easy for each player to increase complexity of its own PC. The only problem is then setting the baseline i.e. minimum complexity. I still have the feeling that this baseline could be lower than now. And since there is practically no upper limit to complexity, lowering the lower limit simply enlarges the range of people who can potentially enjoy the game.
For example, IMHO traditional vancian magic (slots = prepared spells, also without cantrips and rituals) is much simpler than the current spellcasting default. Someone playing a 1st level Cleric or Wizard has to keep track of prepared spells and used daily slots separately, has to choose cantrips, and has to know about rituals or she'll waste slots when she could get a way with a ritual instead. All these stuff could have been made available through feats (if one feat or two was already allowed at 1st level) or subclasses or alternative class features (even at 1st level). If cantrips and rituals are so popular, the majority of players would choose to have them, but there would still be a built-in option in core for a simpler spellcasting system.
That's just an example, but there are other smaller things here and there that IMHO could have been simpler. For instance, the game doesn't really need swift spells, but it's one more rule you need to know about spells you can cast. Then also death/dying rules and opportunity attacks could be simplified further.
