Abstraction said:
The funny thing about this thread is that it is suppposed to be about how 4E can be elegant and streamlined. How do you know what changes are more elegant and streamlined? To me, the question to ask is, would such-and-so change make the game easier or harder for casual or first-time players? Most of the changes you guys want would raise that bar significantly. Realize that 3E is the first roleplaying game since cowboys & indians that people can play without knowing the rules. I think we need to keep it that way.
I disagree to a certain extent. Having a layered approach to rules, where one can learn little by little, allows a game to handle complex situations while presenting a friendly interface to newbies. One way of doing this is to have a drill-down approach to the rules where you only have to learn the basics of the rules to begin using a subsystem, but you can add on complexity or ignore it on a case-by-case basis.
An example might be melee attacks. Rather than having a series of feats that apply to weapons and their use (weapon finesse, weapon focus, weapon specialization), you can have an Attack Bonus that can be used for all melee weapons. You never need worry that there is any more to the system than a simple +5 to hit and 1d8 damage. But if you want to be a master swordsman, you can improve that modifier, getting a +3 to use swords, or a +8 total with your +5 to all attacks. Then you can come along and get really good at the rapier, getting a +2 to add to your +8 with swords.
You can apply this sort of ideology to the entire game. If your character doesn't want to deal with the skill system, then don't. All skills are purchased the same, and all can be used untrained. While the DM might ask one player to make a Spot check, he can ask you to make a Wisdom check. You need never know what skills or skill points are. Instead of getting skill points, you got that extra boost to your rapier attack, something you care about, as opposed to trying to figure out which of the 40 skills to place your measly 2 skill points into; and since you never cared about skills, you're not even sure where to begin.
With spellcasters, maybe you think of a wizard as a spell slinging powerhouse of massive damage. You don't really care about the intricacies of a polymorph spell and so you only learn those spells you like (fireball, magic missile, etc.) and get better and better at them, instead of learning them and being done with it, and then diversifying. Later on, when you want to expand your horizons a bit, the rules are there, but you were able to ignore them up until you cared.
Unfortunately, this can't be done with a class level system, so you do have the initial investment of character creation. But a slew of packages to choose from (the spellslinger, the enchanter, the necromancer, the diviner, etc.) can get you started real quick without even worrying about all those other rules.
You chose a spellcaster and you look at your starting package. Attack Bonus is nowhere to be found. It isn't needed. You aren't planning on using it. And you don't even really know what it is or how it works (and that you can specialize in swords and rapiers, etc.) But that's OK. After a few sessions, when your character picked up a knife and did horribly trying to wield it with his untrained Str mod, you may decide you'd like to at least look into this Attack Bonus thing that you see the grunts in the party using. You only need to get as involved as you wish, though. You need not learn the rules for tripping, disarming, whirlwind attack, etc. and you are not going to be unbalanced because you don't.