D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Chaosmancer]

I do love the image. Or just go with aurochs- those huge European cows that they used to have.

But the notion of orcish ranchers is a very good one imo. Good legs on that idea.

Aurochs are in 5e, and important to orcs both militarily and religiously (they were brought up in Volo's)

 

[Guest 85555]

Because I am human, I am capable of empathy, and I understand harm. Humans are social animals, we work best in social groups, and therefore we innately understand that harming other humans is bad for the cohesion of the social group. It is entirely selfish, and that's fine.

But the problem with this is it usually only extends to the in group or our people. I am not saying there isn’t something innate, a twinge if conscience, when we see any human being harmed (I would argue this is part of an innate awareness that humanity is special), but this twinge can easily be overridden when other factors come into play (in Christian Europe, when we thought someone was a witch, In Nazi Germany if people were Jewish or didn’t meet an aryan ideal, in Mao’s China if someone was thought to be a ‘capitalist roader’ in during the red scares if someone were believed to be a communist, during the height of Eugenics and social Darwinism if someone was believed to too weak to thrive or bad for the gene pool, etc

 

[Chaosmancer]

The game can be simple and the enemies make sense in universe.

SNIP

Ultamilitaristic hobgoblins who are tactical powerhouses who didn't have forges and Intelligence bonus for a long time.

D&D wants to have humaniod warrior enemies but forces them to be stupid and have no culture or nonsensical ones. So once your PCs rest in the inn or tavern, the world around them makes no sense.

Can I point out a thing that drives me INSANE, for just a moment?

Hobgoblins are legionaires. They conquer areas of mineral wealth. They are highly tactical, highly strategic, and focused on only one thing, war.

They don't have ANY cities. Nowhere. They don't have an empire ANYWHERE in any of the major worlds that I have been able to find. They are STILL described as "tribal" because it says they are "tribal bands called Legions". They don't have any farming or agriculture at all described anywhere. Yet, even someone as militarily inept as myself knows that supplies and food are the single greatest concern of any army anywhere. Even the Spartans had farms, they were run by slaves, but they had them. The Hobgoblins don't even have that!

Heck, they even say "Like the more civilized races, they use oxen and horses to transport goods and weaponry over long distances. They communicate with each other using trained ravens, and keep vicious wolves to guard prisoners and protect hobgoblin camps. Hobgoblin cavalry use trained worgs as steeds, in the same way that goblins ride wolves."

I know we talk a lot about orcs, but Hobgoblins are even worse in a lot of ways, because despite literally everything about them they are still considered uncivilized tribal people. It is madness!

 

[Guest 85555]

I don't avoid it. Harming annoying children (who are human) is more bad than harming hostile soldiers (other humans). It is all about context and what contexts are acceptable. Yes, this means we have to actively strive harder to avoid "us vs them" mentalities, we have to strive for an ideal that acknowledges a global community of humans who can all be part of the same social group, with smaller groups within, but it is certainly possible.

Context still matters. But arguably the soldiers are forcing you to act by attacking. You aren’t ceasing to see them as inherently special and valuable. So even in war we have rules because if that. And children we are especially sympathetic too because they are innocent and still need protection. We can understand humans are all special but also see it is good to help an elderly person cross the road while not helping the perfectly able bodied 20 year old cross

 

[Guest 85555]

And one of the strongest ways to argue against genetic medicine is to claim Human DNA is special and should not be tampered with. That blade cuts both ways. And I don't think I need to argue that humans are special to argue that we should not cause harm to other humans. Arguing that infirm humans should be harmed goes against our natural predilections for social cohesion. There are good reasons we don't harm the elderly, and they don't rely on "because humans are special".

Societies harm and abuse the infirm all the time. I agree there is also a natural compassion towards the infirm but you only have to look to a couple of years ago where I live to see how quickly that is over ridden in the right ciscunstances if we fail to cleave to a strong sense of the inherent value of all human beings. If we just think in terms of social cohesion and enlightened self interest, well when people become inconvenient to those things it is all too easy to not treat them with all the rights they deserve.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Can I point out a thing that drives me INSANE, for just a moment?

Hobgoblins are legionaires. They conquer areas of mineral wealth. They are highly tactical, highly strategic, and focused on only one thing, war.

They don't have ANY cities. Nowhere. They don't have an empire ANYWHERE in any of the major worlds that I have been able to find. They are STILL described as "tribal" because it says they are "tribal bands called Legions". They don't have any farming or agriculture at all described anywhere. Yet, even someone as militarily inept as myself knows that supplies and food are the single greatest concern of any army anywhere. Even the Spartans had farms, they were run by slaves, but they had them. The Hobgoblins don't even have that!

Heck, they even say "Like the more civilized races, they use oxen and horses to transport goods and weaponry over long distances. They communicate with each other using trained ravens, and keep vicious wolves to guard prisoners and protect hobgoblin camps. Hobgoblin cavalry use trained worgs as steeds, in the same way that goblins ride wolves."

I know we talk a lot about orcs, but Hobgoblins are even worse in a lot of ways, because despite literally everything about them they are still considered uncivilized tribal people. It is madness!

And that is called terrible worldbuilding...

 

[Guest 85555]

And one of the strongest ways to argue against genetic medicine is to claim Human DNA is special and should not be tampered with.

sure this is a complicated topic for sure. To be clear I am not saying human DNA is special. I am saying human beings are special

I think genetic medicine does raise a lot of ethical questions we have to talk about (and I think groups affected really need to have voices in the conversation). But sure, I have Crohn’s disease. It is genetic. I would be living a much fuller life and have a much easier time putting food on the table had it been possible to edit my genes so I didn’t have that issue. As long as I am not being written out of the picture (for instance not even being born in the first place because a healthier fetus took my place) then I am fine exploring genetic medicine to improve individuals lives (it is still definitely an area that warrants a long conversation)

 

[MGibster]

I know we talk a lot about orcs, but Hobgoblins are even worse in a lot of ways, because despite literally everything about them they are still considered uncivilized tribal people. It is madness!

It's almost like D&D has a rather simplistic tradition of world building that works for adventuring purposes so long as you don't squint too hard and examine the details.

 

[Minigiant]

Can I point out a thing that drives me INSANE, for just a moment?

Hobgoblins are legionaires. They conquer areas of mineral wealth. They are highly tactical, highly strategic, and focused on only one thing, war.

They don't have ANY cities. Nowhere. They don't have an empire ANYWHERE in any of the major worlds that I have been able to find. They are STILL described as "tribal" because it says they are "tribal bands called Legions". They don't have any farming or agriculture at all described anywhere. Yet, even someone as militarily inept as myself knows that supplies and food are the single greatest concern of any army anywhere. Even the Spartans had farms, they were run by slaves, but they had them. The Hobgoblins don't even have that!

Heck, they even say "Like the more civilized races, they use oxen and horses to transport goods and weaponry over long distances. They communicate with each other using trained ravens, and keep vicious wolves to guard prisoners and protect hobgoblin camps. Hobgoblin cavalry use trained worgs as steeds, in the same way that goblins ride wolves."

I know we talk a lot about orcs, but Hobgoblins are even worse in a lot of ways, because despite literally everything about them they are still considered uncivilized tribal people. It is madness!

That's why I brought it up.

This is why, as a black man, I got what Brink said. The top minds in the industry just are into or even can't make modern lore anymore. So they need to get more diverse minds in creative.

 

[Maxperson]

So zebra are just as special as humans, after all, all zebra are unique. Uniqueness is not the same as specialness.

Then there's no such thing as special.

And yes, the zebra is special. Is it the same as humans? No. Humans have more uniqueness than a zebra.

Disagree, because if the deciding factor on personhood is "are you human" then we have already denied personhood to every non-human species that may ever exist. And they will exist. Statistics show that pretty compellingly. Sp why pre-emptively deny them personhood?

Then get the definition changed. Right now the deciding factor is human and doesn't change just because you feel like it should.