How did I not see a beholder?

[Dannyalcatraz]

I counted 14 + gorilla...but then again, I'm familiar with this kind of experiment.

Might be worth talking to larpers and martial artists. To see how often they get "surprised" by enemy combatants who should have been obvious.

Note, this is all different than tha bad guy who is trying to come up from behind (where you obviously can't see).

The scenario you're testing for is can a person in a fight/exploring a dungeon miss seeing an obvious threat (the gorilla in the basketball game).

I guarrantee you, the basketball players all saw the gorilla. They were not hyperfocused on the ball, they were focussed on the entire field, because they had to know where they were, the enemy was, and where their allies were.

OTOH, top-notch athletes- Tom Brady, LeBron James, Mike Modano, etc.- all manage to have their passes picked off. Despite their training and awareness, they still have opponents "picking their pockets."

Why? Because, in game terms, observation and awareness are not unaposed skill checks. You don't automatically succeed at seeing things, no matter how skilled you are at being a trained observer within your area of expertise.

As good as you are at noticing things, your opponent has skill at having his intentions being misperceived.

And the Beholder in question? Where was it? Did its rocky appearance sort of blend in with the dark, stony environment of the dungeon, or was it a big floating ball in the forest highlighted by multiple rays of sunlight?

 

[Rykion]

I noticed the person in the suit. I counted 14 clear passes and possibly a 15th as it appears one pass is tipped in flight. I have no problem with perception checks, but don't also don't think they're really important except in stealth/ambush situations.

 

[Fifth Element]

I had to fight everybody in my dojo to get my blackbelt. Then I had to fight several of them at once (all brown and above), including a fellow blackbelt candidate on my side.

It ain't hyper-focussed. It's seeing the entire field.

Are you sure? Were you afraid that the one currently in front of you would literally smash your head in at any moment? Were you in a dank, poorly-lit dungeon? Were you seeing the entire field because you knew there was more than one opponent? There are many ways in which this anecdote does not fit the in-game situation.

 

[Shazman]

Let's not forget that you don't have to make spot checks for things in plain sight, only for things that are hidden, not illuminated well, or far away.

 

[Janx]

Are you sure? Were you afraid that the one currently in front of you would literally smash your head in at any moment? Were you in a dank, poorly-lit dungeon? Were you seeing the entire field because you knew there was more than one opponent? There are many ways in which this anecdote does not fit the in-game situation.

actually, I have $15,000 in metal plates in my head from when I was a purple belt and I took a spinning heel kick from a black belt on the tripod (cheek bone).

So yeah, I'd be concerned.


If you want your fighter to not notice something, have more attackers. A crowded room will make it difficult to know how many, and exactly where everybody is.

Just me against an orc, yeah, I'll notice somebody moving in.


What I advise is, making rules that allow a party to entire a well lit room, and due to die rolls, not notice the beholder sitting in the middle of the room.

This is different from a new oponent coming in on the side (flanking) that you hadn't really been paying attention to. With a room full of fighting, it's possible for an orc in the back to move around to the side, and then come in on somebody with them not noticing.

 

[abri]

I think sniping would be more prone to hyper-focus (not paying attention to periphery) than sword fighting. Zooming in on one target, versus moving around and maneuvering the other guy.

Might be worth talking to larpers and martial artists. To see how often they get "surprised" by enemy combatants who should have been obvious.

Well it really depend what type of shooting you're doing. If you are consciously aiming, like in target practice or any kind of precision shooting: there could be a circus 3 foot from the target and you wouldn't see it. On the other hand if you are trying any kind of shooting where the targets suddenly appears or practicing "tir instinctif" (can't recall the name in english: basically the opposite of aiming) you are aware of any movement going on.


Perception check... Yeap, you'd be amazed at what we fail to notice, even without any stress.

 

[mmadsen]

"tir instinctif" (can't recall the name in english: basically the opposite of aiming)

Point shooting.

 

[Starbuck_II]

Well it really depend what type of shooting you're doing. If you are consciously aiming, like in target practice or any kind of precision shooting: there could be a circus 3 foot from the target and you wouldn't see it. On the other hand if you are trying any kind of shooting where the targets suddenly appears or practicing "tir instinctif" (can't recall the name in english: basically the opposite of aiming) you are aware of any movement going on.


Perception check... Yeap, you'd be amazed at what we fail to notice, even without any stress.

I always thought that was called shooting with your heart from a book I read (that was what the guy Pussy, his real name, called it when he trained Porter Rockwell).

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Well I did notice the gorilla, but my first perception was off something obscuring my counting. It took a moment before I looked at the thing and realised it was a gorilla. So if that moment was all it took for the bad guy to get a shot off, I'd be in trouble. Mind you, if I was in a fight for my life against hordes of bad guys I'd be hyped up and probably just duck anything that moved, regardless of knowing what it was.

Oh and I make the count 14.

 

[mmadsen]

This is exactly why highly trained fighters should have an excellent passive perception. Its why I hate "class skills" so much.

I think the "class skill" problem is not that there are class skills, but that (a) the Fighter does not get Spot and Listen as class skills, and (b) cross-class skills cost twice as much, not simply that they're limited to half as many ranks as class skills.