How "different" does a new setting have to be?

[Afrodyte]

Well, I'm working on it, and I'd love to hear your comments...

I took a quick look at Urbis, and I am intrigued by what you have so far. The different elements are familiar yet different enough to inspire me to look more closely than I would in standard medieval fantasy. I especially liked Turaveen and how you linked those elves back to the "old elvish tradition" of kidnapping human babies. While you don't directly state it, the different races do seem to serve a purpose besides merely existing because that's the formula. Dwarves, elves, gnomes, etc. do serve vital functions in the cities, and (expectedly), most people do not realize the importance of what they do.

If I had one criticism, it would be the fact that race and culture seem to be one and the same. Do all Dwarves live in ghettos ruled by a "Hidden King," or is this just something in a well-known city where dwarves are marginalized and often targets of bigotry? Is the elven disdain for humans (and the consequent treating them as insignificant at best and vermin at worst) a factor in every elvish culture, or just one? I think adding wildly divergent attitudes and customs and cultures within each group would accentuate the metropolitan feel of Urbis. These divisions need not be focal points, but I think that if they existed, it would add verisimilitude (uh-oh, that word again) to the urban feel. And you don't even need a whole lot for each group. In Sovereign Stone, for example, dwarves primarily had a nomadic horse culture (think Mongols or Rohirrim, except they're dwarves), but there was a group of dwarves who, because of physical handicap or social ostracization, do not follow this lifestyle and settle in one place, horseless. Since I'm still mad about elves, I'll use that as an example for Urbis. What if you had a small group (say, no more than one tenth to one quarter of the elvish population) who did not believe in being so calloused towards humans? What if they thought that just because something is fleeting does not mean it is less meaningful or less valuable. Consider the sunrise, or a blossom, or colorful autumn leaves. Perhaps they, either through experience or through theory, believe in reincarnation (at least for humans). Rather than dying and leaving the world behind, maybe for humans death is a form of renewal. If elves are like evergreens, always showing their full glory and never diminishing through the seasons, humans are like vines that have a short burst of growth and must be pruned, only to return again come spring.

Although, seeing gnomes and dwarves as different ethnicities within the same race would be really nifty.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

OK, I am an admitted Scarred Lands fan, I think it is a good blend of familiar with a twist. That's what I want, but then I also don't get to play very often and have stories that I want to tell in this setting, so I don't have time for lots of new settings, but I understand the desire for something wholly new.

In the end, though a campaign setting is only as good as the DM who puts the time in to bring it to life. It can be the most original setting, but in the hands of a DM who does not make it his or her own, it will not capture the imaginations of the players. On the other hand an excellent DM can take the most routine setting and make it a fantastic place to be. I don;t think it is as much about the mechanics and the background and the support and the artwork as it is about the DEPTH, and only the DM (with the support of the players) can add that depth.

 

[Turjan]

Well, I'm working on it, and I'd love to hear your comments...

Okay, I have been reading about Urbis quite some time ago, and I like quite a lot of the basic ideas. This drawing of energy from its inhabitants is a nifty idea I also found to be an intriguing idea in the Dark Sun setting. Here this idea is brought to a new level, and it's made intelligent use of it.

The races suffer a bit from the - as I suspect, intended - similarity to standard PHB races. As one of the other posters pointed out, we have the same old non-distinction between race and culture. The PHB races more or less deliver to their stereotypes, despite the exotic setting. I see that hobgoblins are a new take, but they stick to their MM description, too.

 

[baseballfury]

I think people say they want something different but then buy what's familiar. Look at Green Ronin's Mindshadows setting, for instace. Seriously neat setting based on Southeast Asian culture. How often do you see fantasy settings inspired by India and Tibet? Not very often. Yet Mindshadows was eclipsed by Skull & Bones. Now S&B is a fine book itself but pirates have been done many times by many companies. I ran a Mindshadows campaign using the Mindscapes rules from Malhavoc and it was really fun and a nice change of pace. I hope Green Ronin and other companies continue to push the envelope.

 

[Remathilis]

I fall into the catagory where if you want it to be unique, do something novel with the concept, not the system.

A great example of this is Spelljammer: Shadows of the Spider Moon. It has guns and spaceships and mysterious worlds and beardless dwarves, but is also have clerics, mind flayers, elves, and drow. It is classic campaign components, but with a "twist" to make them fresh and unique. A sourcebook (as opposed to a Poly mag) could have gone the extra mile to include new gods and spells, but that, IMHO, is a good D&D setting.

I think Eberron is in the same boat as the above (D&D with a twist), but with alot more work done.

Settings that are radically different (Midnight, Diamond Throne) really don't give me a D&D feel (I know that they are OGL, but still). No more so than playing Warcraft or Everquest P&P and calling THAT D&D.

At the end of the day, you can drink Pepsi* (Greyhawk/D&D), Pepsi Twist (Spelljammer/Eberron) or Lemonaide (Midnight/Diamond Throne), but don't try and call a Lemonaide a Pepsi Twist or vice versa.

( *I guess you could drink Coke (Forgotten Realms), but its still a cola)

 

[Turjan]

I think people say they want something different but then buy what's familiar.

I find this statement a bit onesided. I'm very interested in RL Indian culture, and I find East Indian religeous and philosophical concepts a very interesting read. On the other hands, a fantasy setting using some of these things as stage decoration is not so interesting for me, similar to pseudo-Egyptian, pseudo-Roman or pseudo-Greek ones. I prefer it when citations are not so obvious that they amount more or less only to changing the pictures at the wall. This combined with my dislike of psionics in fantasy settings (just a personal bias - psionics belongs to modern of futuristic scenarios for me) kills Mindshadows from my shopping list .

 

[Eosin the Red]

Settings that are radically different (Midnight, Diamond Throne) really don't give me a D&D feel (I know that they are OGL, but still). No more so than playing Warcraft or Everquest P&P and calling THAT D&D.

At the end of the day, you can drink Pepsi* (Greyhawk/D&D), Pepsi Twist (Spelljammer/Eberron) or Lemonaide (Midnight/Diamond Throne), but don't try and call a Lemonaide a Pepsi Twist or vice versa.

( *I guess you could drink Coke (Forgotten Realms), but its still a cola)

This is a great point. I never bought into D&Disms. I am a Fantasy Roleplayer not a D&D player. This may be some of the disconnect. I want my FRPG to emulate my fantasy literature not parody gamisms. Midnight feels more like a fantasy setting to me cause it is made closer to the image of fantasy lit (being a "what if Frodo failed" kinda thing).

Maybe D&D has drifted so far from its roots that it is no long in the genre but now has a subgenre of its own? You could say;

Low Fantasy
High Fantasy
Epic Fantasy
S&S Fantasy
Crossworlds Fantasy
Furry Fantasy
D&D Fantasy

What do ya think? Is D&D still in the same Genre as Fantasy or has it become its own genre?

 

[Corinth]

No, D&D is now synonymous with Fantasy- as Tolkien is synonymous with Fantasy.

 

[grodog]

I made up some different elf cultures (no different stats), and they are pretty different from each other. I'll try to PM or email them to you.

I'd really appreciate that, thanks ! Unfortunately, I only have handwritten records, and they are not in English, either. But I'll try to type a short translation of some main aspects .

Rather than sending these notes privately, why not post them here? It can't hurt to have some specific examples to discuss

 

[Afrodyte]

Rather than sending these notes privately, why not post them here? It can't hurt to have some specific examples to discuss

They are quite lengthy, and interest seems to be sporadic at best. It's better not to waste bandwidth if only, say three people (myself included) want to know more.

In addition, the world is far from complete, although I have an idea of what sorts of games and the mood and feel I was going for. While I was initially hooked onto this prehistoric world dominated by elves, I've since branched out and I may want to adapt them to a pre-existing world.