How different should Arcane and Divine magic be?

[HP Dreadnought]

I like the idea of piety points, or rolls to determine the mood of your deity. Either system or both would be helpful in drawing a distinction that is sorely lacking in 3.x.

I agree that the spell lists should be completely separate to the maximum extent posible.

 

[Zurai]

I very much dislike how there really isn't any difference between Arcane and Divine magic now, excepting (sometimes) which class's spell list the spells appear in, and divine magic not being subject to ASF for some unknowable reason.

There either needs to be literally no distinction (NOT my preferred method), or there needs to be actual seperations between the two. I'm hoping that, with explicit "power sources" in the design of every class for 4E, and Arcane and Divine being seperate power sources, that they will be more distinct in the future.

 

[Mallus]

Flavortext.

(ie, they shouldn't be different at all in mechanical terms)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Undifferentiate the spell list, and give spells plenty of topical tags, but not "Arcane" or "Divine" ones. Then specify what tags to which a character has access by class, deity, tradition, whatever.

It would be nice to see the Cleric distinguished from the wizard by the social role she plays: a Cleric isn't just someone who gets powers from praying, a Cleric is a liaison between mortality and immortality. Which should include the pre-Abrahamic model of "I am the community's diplomatic envoy to the deity" as much as the Abrahamic model of "I am the deity's representative to the community." Since they're both Leader roles, Clerics could step on some Warlord toes here.

Isn't this exactly what they are going for the Cleric? Isn't he supposed to become a "Divine Leader"?

 

[Aldarc]

Isn't this exactly what they are going for the Cleric? Isn't he supposed to become a "Divine Leader"?

I think so, but with clerics being hard enough to get people to play, I am almost wondering how much more appealing the "secular leader" warlord will be over the "divine leader" cleric? But that really does not pertain to the topic too much.

 

[Remathilis]

I wouldn't mind if clerics lost spellcasting entirely and instead had a collection of powers and talents that reflected divine blessing: healing touch, turn undead, banishment, sacred fire, etc. Thus, wizards have spells, but clerics have "divine powers" (akin to a paladin, but a clerics are much more focused on buffs/healing, a paladin on personal defense and smiting)

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'd be all for getting rid of the distinction, myself. If I wanted more distinction now, I'd get rid of clerical spells and replace them with rituals that granted long-duration continued effects.

I'd do the opposite. Make magic the domain of wizards sitting in towers weaving together persistent effects, and give clerics the ability to pray for help, right now, from a deity. In fact, that's one of the things I never liked about divine magic. Why, if the deity is so powerful and concerned with the well-being of its followers (or their works in its name, in the case of evil deities), does it just shrug and say "I know you need me to help you survive the oncoming rush of lava, but you prepared Dispel Magic instead of Protection from Energy. Nothing I can do, buddy." At least some form of "divine intervention" mechanic would go a long way toward making clerics feel like the divine emissaries they're supposed to be.

 

[Aldarc]

I mentioned it in the other thread, but I think that oddly enough the warlock may be a fairly interesting way to develop the cleric and priest in terms of conjuring, making supernatural pacts, summoning, curses, etc.

 

[Oligopsony]

Isn't this exactly what they are going for the Cleric? Isn't he supposed to become a "Divine Leader"?

Well, I guess it depends whether "Leader" implies anything other than boost abilities. If it does, I'll certainly be happy.

 

[Sadrik]

There should be a distinction between caster method and caster effect. Caster effects should all function the same imo. And caster method should vary depending on the type of caster your are.

So yes, separate them a bit. But that does not mean separate the effects keep the effects the same no matter what class you are.