How do i meet those high spellcraft DC's ?

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Ack

I was thinking more along the lines of "bonus squared x 20(0)gp."

OK. That works too.

Just out of curiosity, are you going to Rule 0 the change for bonuses greater than +30?

Probably. First, I need to take a good close look at the final version of the rules when I get the ELH.

 

[Other Guy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ack

I was thinking more along the lines of "bonus squared x 20(0)gp."

OK. That works too.

Actually, wouldn't that make the item free? I might be mistaken but I believe I'm correct--that would be sweet (and terrifying, but I'm not the DM so ).

Also, the jump in cost from 29-31 does seem a bit silly, but I don't really have much of a problem with it. I see the logic that epic characters would have endless bags of gold at their disposal (actually, two characters I played with did, literally ) so the normal progression may be a bit too cheap for them. I can see why the game designers would want to make +90 rings of spellcraft a little more difficult to get at than they would be under the normal rules.

Also, as for the high spellcraft checks, I was particularly amused by the one required for the animate the Sphinx spell in Dragon 297 (and just about everything else related to its construction).

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ack

Actually, wouldn't that make the item free?

Huh? No, it wouldn't be free.

I see the logic that epic characters would have endless bags of gold at their disposal

Epic level characters don't have endless bags of gold. In fact, you total wealth allowed slows down a touch.

Essentially, the way the epic level rules are structured, such as character advancement, spells, magic item costs, total character wealth advancement, and monster CRs, it's just like starting off at 1st level again. At 21st level, theres a reallly good chance that you'll get mopped up in your first evenly matched EL/CR encounter, just like when you were 1st level.

I think structuring it like that was pretty sloppy, lazy, and especially boring, since it had already been done before (levels 1-20). If I wanted to my players to relive the feel of getting their butts kicked, I'd just start a new game at 1st level.

Then again, I haven't fully playtested it yet, so it might work just fine, though I doubt it.

 

[Aven]

Not bad ideas around here, i hadn't really thought of a magic item with hefty spellcraft bonuses. that, and improved spellcasting + epic skill focus (which really seems like a waste, what with all the cool epic feats) and ranks and stat boost could probably get a 21st level epic character up around where he needs to be to cast the easier epic level spells. i just don't see a 21st level character as merely a level above a 20th, y'know ? I see becomming epic as crossing a threshold of sorts, going over a boarder realm somewhere between mortals and the gods. MAN that sounds fruity, but it's all i've got as far as explanitions into my viewpoint go. *shrug* whatever. thanks for the help guys. any other suggestions, preferable non-campaign specific ?

 

[kreynolds]

i just don't see a 21st level character as merely a level above a 20th, y'know ? I see becomming epic as crossing a threshold of sorts, going over a boarder realm somewhere between mortals and the gods.

Unfortunately, the epic level rules don't share your viewpoint (or mine, sort of) on this.

 

[Piratecat]

I'm not sure I like the concept of a 21st level PC crossing that threshhold. It would make the game much harder to run. As someone with a 19th lvl pc in my game, I'd have trouble justifying and running such an apotheosis... especially when the other PCs are a fewlevels lower.

I'm out of the realms of rules, though, and into the realm of personal opinion.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm out of the realms of rules, though, and into the realm of personal opinion.

That's OK though. Your opinion is still perfectly valid. Look at it like this. The PH, DMG, and MM are all structured to take you from 1st level (or 0th level if you're one of those nutbag-freaky-freaky-wacked-totally-skitzoid DMs 0th level is just odd) all the way up to 20th level in a smooth and steady (more or less) progression. If you like the flow of that, then you'll like the flow of the ELH. The ELH is just like the core rules, only bigger numbers.