How do I turn Powergamers into Roleplayers?

[Spove]

I don't think that it's impossible to convert a power gamer to a roleplayer. Although the task can be daunting. Don't expect results overnight.

Try presenting situations that can only be surpassed through roleplay. Don't present the situation as a total blockage, but rather as a small side feature. At first the players will most likely ignore your attempts to get them to roleplay. I suggest making the roleplay opportunities more appealing. Such as rewarding the player who did take the bait with some piece of information that eludes to gaining a powerful weapon or treasure of some kind. That should be enough of a hook for the powergamer. You can string them along through all sorts of roleplay encounters to finally reach the prize that was promised. I would mix in some combat encounters as well to keep them happy and disguise the fact that they are roleplaying. You could make an entire campaign out of it.

Another approach is to punish for not roleplaying. This can be a bit tricky. I recommend only doing so with a well planned encounter. For instance, pit them against seemingly unbeatable odds with the only way out being through roleplay. Use this sparingly as the tpk or roleplay situation will be frowned upon. If you do try this method make the odds only appear to be dismal. Perhaps with an illusion spell or 12. Of course this could backfire on you. So again, you will have to carefully tailor the encounter to your players.

Of the two methods I have found good success with the first and only fair with the second. If you can't seem to convert them, remember that if it's not fun for you, then you should look for new players.

 

[trix]

Curse em i tell you. . .

Curse certain stats to 9str. The curse's trigger must be carefully chosen: Ie: If fighter bob kills in a day, he is cursed to 9str. So, you've got this fighter avoiding combat as much as possible.

Curse the mage: Forgets his spells if he kills someone.

Thief: is too loud, too slow, too dex 9 unless he chats up a barmaid once a moon.

This forces players to explore other avenues which a power player (is that there shrub movi'n?) doesnt normally do.

Fit the curses in carefully. Its also a whole campaign by itself as the players try to get rid of the darn things.

 

[Uller]

Try presenting situations that can only be surpassed through roleplay.

Why would you want to do that? I'm not saying that Power-gamers shouldn't be expected to role-play every now and again. D&D is a group past-time and you have to sometimes participate in things that you normally wouldn't want to do for the good of the group. So in a mixed group, the role-players will have to "tolerate" the fact that there is at least one or two battles in a session and the power-gamers must tolerate a bit of investigation, intrigue and conversation in the session.

But to present RP situations in the hopes it will somehow convert power-gamers is folly. It is something akin to a young woman marrying a less than 'ideal' husband in the hopes that she can help him 'grow' to be the man she really wants to marry.

If you only like power-gaming and can't stomach role-playing, don't play with people who mostly want to role-play. If you only like RP and can't stand power-gaming don't play with power-gamers.

Me? I like a RP, but if there isn't a good bit of excitement, combat and a chance to try out some cool new ability, then I'm going to get bored. My group is mostly like me...we like a mix with a leaning towards combat (I think that's the way most D&D players are). One player is totally uninterested in RP. Whenever an RP situation comes up, he stops paying attention. If you try to force too much RP onto hardcore powergamers, you'll just bore them.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

[BJeez, how can you roleplay in it when you're too busy rolling for initiative?

I open the door. Roll for initiative.
I walk into the room. Roll for initiative.
I walk up the stairs. Roll for initiative.
I look for the public restroom. Roll for initiative.
I think I can see my house from here! Roll for initiative.
[/B]

ROFL! You've made my day. Hey, I think I can see my...

 

[Spove]

But to present RP situations in the hopes it will somehow convert power-gamers is folly.

I disagree. I think that some of the folks who don't roleplay don't do so simply because they don't know how. Or are shy or have some other player hangup.

I started playing D&D when I was 8 years old. I was a powergamer munchkin from hell. I learned to roleplay in the years that followed by having a DM who used the tatics I mentioned.

Sure, some folks are hardcore metagamers and can't be changed. If his players are this type and he finds the game to be more chore then fun, then he should find new players.

 

[Uller]

I disagree. I think that some of the folks who don't roleplay don't do so simply because they don't know how. Or are shy or have some other player hangup.

I started playing D&D when I was 8 years old. I was a powergamer munchkin from hell. I learned to roleplay in the years that followed by having a DM who used the tatics I mentioned.

Sure, some folks are hardcore metagamers and can't be changed. If his players are this type and he finds the game to be more chore then fun, then he should find new players.

Right. Certainly younger (and new older players) may have not had an opportunity to try the game from a different tact, and most strat out power-gaming and 'evolve' to some mix of combat and role-playing that suits them. But I assume that the original poster was talking about established gamers who are well aware of the style of game they enjoy and would likely be bored to tears by having an intriguing conversation with the honorable Lord Hummly when they could be battling scads of Kuo-Toa in Monte's RttToEE Web Enhancement.

Oh...and metagamers can be RPers or powergamers...ever get into an out-of-game arguement about real world physics or human nature because an RPer assumed something about real life works the same way in game? I have. That's metagaming, too.

 

[Spove]

Oh...and metagamers can be RPers or powergamers...ever get into an out-of-game arguement about real world physics or human nature because an RPer assumed something about real life works the same way in game? I have. That's metagaming, too.

Oh yes, we tend to have those too. They normally end with someone spouting "keep your reality out of my fantasy".

Yes, I should have used powergamer in the place of metagamer.

 

[Glamdring]

Power-gaming. I feel your pain.

I know exactly what you're going through. Many of the posted replies should help you, especially the one explaining how hack-n-slash your module is (as most are). I had a similar problem during my second eddition campaign a few years back. Bear with me:

We were running Night Below, set in the FR world, and the group had made it through the first two books. As the third book was introduced, I had already worked in plenty of FR goodies, like visits to Shadowdale, Cormyr, the Hullack, and the entire Underdark area beneath both regions. The PCs were powerful, I'll give them that, and they deserved everything they recieved...to a point. I always work in tricks and tests that my gamers sometimes miss as they play. When treasure and experience points take precedence over the game itself, I get angry, and when I get angry, PCs die. I'm a fair DM, and my players know that, but my favorite quote at the gaming table is "Greed kills." Back to the Night Below tale:

The group was accosted by a clan of stone giants. The PCs fought back, followed them into their cave complex, and wiped them out in two evenings of bloody battle. Inside that cave I worked in a hidden dwarven tomb. You see, the giants' cave was once a dwarven kingdom, and the giants quarried out the area, making it livalble. The tomb was well hidden, and had nothing to do with the campaign whatsoever. Of course, they were curious, and the very idea of a dwarven tomb leads one to imagine heaps of treasure. They went down into the tomb, and they all died there. The dwarven undead banged them up badly enough, but the drow lich entombed there finished them off rather quickly. The only one to escape was the priest of Mystra, who returned the next day to destroy the lich single-handedly. It was the finest moment of the campaign as the shining, armored priest battled the dark drow lich for the lives of his comrades. That's not even the half of it. Bear with me.

Once that was over, the PC's bodies (and their many many magical items, which were more important than anything, of course) were nowhere to be found, having either been spirited away by the drow or ashed by the titanic spell exchange. The priest returned empty handed, and quickly formed a crack squad of adventurers (ran by those who recently lost their beloved original characters) to seek out the drow lich's phylactery and the bodies and items of the slain PCs. They completely abandoned Night Below to delve deeper in search of their treasures. I wasn't happy. The found their way to the classic drow comples, The Vault, and infiltrated a massive stalagmite drow stronghold. The priest summoned a 24 HD fire elemental, and the group set about slaying the many, many derro, bugbear, hobgoblin and drow guards with relative ease. Once they stumbled upon a central chamber containing not only the infamous drow lich that was "thought" to have been destroyed, but also another human lich, a drow priestess, an ultra-illithid, and a galbrezu demon, the entire campaign ended right then and there in one final battle. End of story. Their worthless quest for the return of their magical items ended abruptly.

My point is this: Power gamers can only go in one direction. Down. Forgive the pun in this case, but it's true. All you can do is yank back on the choke collar and let them know that you're in charge, and that you want the game to go a certain direction. If they chose another path, that's fine. The game should be open-ended. My suggestion is to slay them all and have them start over. Don't make it seem like you're doing it on purpose. It's a fine line to walk, but it can be done. I've done it, and they learned their lesson. Unfortunately, I can still sense the greed in their actions in our 3E game. I'll be jerking their collars real soon, I imagine. It's so much fun!! Maybe I'll throw a balor/marilith combo at 'em!!

 

[Sialia]

OK, so, I haven’t read the module (or even most of (cntxt)’s much admired Storyhour about it, sadly) but I’m guessing that somewhere in all that dungeon, there is at least one smart monster. And that smart monster should be able to recognize when a party is coming through that may be too tough for him/her. It's ok if the party is overpowered for the dungeon. The monsters, the smart monsters, just need to respond to recognizing that in a meaningful way. They get tricky. They get cowardly. WHat do they really want to accomplish and how do they get it if stright out comabt isn't good odds for them? Is survival their goal? the destruction of the PCs goals? the obliteration of some innocent village? To what extent are the PCs really important to the monsters? Is killling them the goal, or just getting rid of them?

Why fight PCs, or even waste effort trying to kill them, when you can convince them to go somewhere else?
Example: There’s just got to be some kind of monster around that can give the PCs a walloping set of highly personal nightmares. The kind of nightmares that make you wonder whether you’re fit to be adventuring, or worry that you ought to be home saving your mom instead of cavorting through the countryside on a meaningless quest for personal glory. Or that make you feel pity for the tortured creatures imprisoned in the dungeon, who didn’t really want to be there--it’s not their fault they have been starved and beaten until they are vicious enough to tackle parties who vastly out power them. Have a little pity, set them all free. . .

Setting the party against each other is not much fun if everyone is already too tense to be having a good time. But making them doubt the nature of the dungeon they are facing together might give them good roleplaying hooks. Giving the monsters a good "what is my motivation in this scene" also will lead to good roleplaying moments.

"why don't they just stand in their 10x10 rooms and fight and die like REAL mosnters?"

"they're up to something . . ."

 

[Uller]

Re: Power-gaming. I feel your pain.

I'll be jerking their collars real soon, I imagine. It's so much fun!! Maybe I'll throw a balor/marilith combo at 'em!!

Right. And speaking as a power-gamer, I'd rather see my character die a grand death battling the invincible legions of Hell than spend an entire session role-playing without a single battle or other form of excitement.

If your PCs follow an alternate path that is clearly away from your campaign's plot line, then guess what? They're jerking _your_ chain. They're bringing you back in line and telling you "You're not giving us what we want so we're gonna go this way, even if it means death."

It has been my experience, both as a player and a DM, that when players become confused, frustrated or bored, they will become more likely to follow the path toward the nearest big monster in hopes of hearing the DM say "Roll initiative...".

So, if you want to induce some role-playing, you gotta make it interesting to them...you gotta have it lead to something exciting. If you are role-playing the purchase of supplies or the finding the location of the nearest suitable inn where the party can hole up for a few days without throwing the players a bone in the form of some information that will lead to battle, treasure and glory, then they will likely not take much interest in it.