How do I turn Powergamers into Roleplayers?

Kestrel said:
Ok, I'm at the end of my rope here...

I'm running Monte's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil and...

...At this point, I'm ready to call it quits and find some new players. I simply don't know what to do to get them to roleplay instead of powergame. Any advice?

Advice pick 1;

a) Bring a big stick & use it.

b) Tell them that this is a game for all of you, & it's not fun for you currently so please change things or you'll quit. Also remind them that you're not trying to win the game, that's impossible. When you controll everything, there is nothing to win, what would you win?

c) call it quits and find some new players.

d) Make one of them DM & you play to give them a feel for your position.

e) Quit
 

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Re: Power-gaming. I feel your pain.

Glamdring said:

The group was accosted by a clan of stone giants. The PCs fought back, followed them into their cave complex, and wiped them out in two evenings of bloody battle. Inside that cave I worked in a hidden dwarven tomb. You see, the giants' cave was once a dwarven kingdom, and the giants quarried out the area, making it livalble. The tomb was well hidden, and had nothing to do with the campaign whatsoever. Of course, they were curious,

You expect them not to be curious?

and the very idea of a dwarven tomb leads one to imagine heaps of treasure. They went down into the tomb, and they all died there. The dwarven undead banged them up badly enough, but the drow lich entombed there finished them off rather quickly. The only one to escape was the priest of Mystra, who returned the next day to destroy the lich single-handedly. It was the finest moment of the campaign as the shining, armored priest battled the dark drow lich for the lives of his comrades. That's not even the half of it. Bear with me.

Once that was over, the PC's bodies (and their many many magical items, which were more important than anything, of course) were nowhere to be found, having either been spirited


So, you decided to destroy all the effort they put into their characters?

away by the drow or ashed by the titanic spell exchange. The priest returned empty handed, and quickly formed a crack squad of adventurers (ran by those who recently lost their beloved original characters) to seek out the drow lich's phylactery and the bodies and items of the slain PCs. They completely abandoned Night Below to delve deeper in search of their treasures. I wasn't happy. The found their way to the classic drow comples, The Vault, and infiltrated a massive stalagmite drow stronghold. The priest summoned a 24 HD fire elemental, and the group set about slaying the many, many derro, bugbear, hobgoblin and drow guards with relative ease. Once they stumbled upon a central chamber containing not only the infamous drow lich that was "thought" to have been destroyed, but also another human lich, a drow priestess, an ultra-illithid, and a galbrezu demon, the entire campaign ended right then and there in one final battle. End of story. Their worthless quest for the return of their magical items ended abruptly.

So you killed them all for following a plot line you created. How nice and understanding of you.

Geoff.
 


Falcon said:

You bother to read this entire thread?

Yes.
I don't see how Glamdring's story encourages roleplaying at all.

Why wouldn't they be curious?
Why wouldn't they try to get their stuff back?
What does any of that have to do with roleplaying?

Geoff.
 
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I'm so frikking tired of being a dm! Besides some gladiator matches I havent played a char since 2e!
 


Here's my $.02

- Don't run Monty's Meatgrinder if you want to encourage RP. The temple from what I know of it is very combat heavy and very deadly. By running such a dangerous module, you are encouraging powergaming.

- Give them something else to do. Give them some NPC followers, or put them in charge of a town, or encourage them to invest in a business.

- Let them face challenges they can't just fireball. Slick tounged merchants and shrewd diplomats can be challenges as well.

- Let them gain XP for non combat. If they manage to talk their way around the orcs when it would have been easier to just attack, give them xp for the orcs. The question is not whether there are a bunch of bodies on the floor, but if they overcame the challenge.

- Let them get their swords wet. You do need some combats to keep their attention. The trick is to get them to not just fight, but to fight about things they care about. I like to start every game with a good fight to get everyone into the mood.
 


Yeah yeah yeah. I know what I posted might seem like I was being a jerk. The point I was making is that players don't typically care about the plot of a campaign as much as the DM. I didn't go into greater detail because it would have taken up way too much space, and such a long post would have been scanned and not truly read.

I didn't kill anyone for followin a plot I created (here we go again with the "let's find something I can slam about this or that post" epidemic). They wanted magical items. They didn't want to save the world. Their greed killed them. It's like a group of adventurers throwing themselves at a dragon in the hopes of claiming the horde, when the real reason to slay an evil dragon is because it's destroying villages. That's my point. When PCs start getting greedy and grabby, punishment follows.

Further, I have absolutely no problem allowing my gamers to go off track. They're doing it now. However, when all they want is to recover their beloved magical items, they're showing me that they've lost focus. The game isn't about min-maxing and suping up characters to the point of invincibility (that's when I break out the hive of beholders). What I did was a lesson that taught them that it's ok to run from battle. When they were exploring that tomb, just before they freed that drow lich the party mage said, "Look, I can teleport us (those that remained alive) outta here and we can come back." Surviving PCs replied, "Nah, let's just open this tomb and see what we can find." Yeah, they're curious, but there's a time to call it quits. They needed to learn prudence. The have it now.
 

Glamdring said:
I didn't kill anyone for followin a plot I created (here we go again with the "let's find something I can slam about this or that post" epidemic). They wanted magical items. They didn't want to save the world. Their greed killed them.

I got the feeling that they were hunting for their lost companions and to wreak revenge on the creature that hurt them so bad. That's what came across (for me) in your post; maybe that's not what you wanted to say.
 

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