How do you convince someone of the truth

[Lord Pendragon]

Just a reminder before this debate--which I've participated in far too often --gets too far: the OP never said anything about using skills PC vs PC. That is a part of Lhorgrim's reply in Post #2. So unless glass is interested in that aspect of things, it'd probably be best not to turn his thread into a discussion of it, rather than what he put in his OP.

 

[Felnar]

couldnt the opponents sense motive check reveal that you are telling the truth?
maybe give a diplomacy bonus/penalty based on how much the opponent suceeded/failed the their sense motive check
even better, you could let the player speak, and modify the diplomacy check based on what they say
- Felnar

 

[RigaMortus2]

To convince someone of which is not true, you make a bluff check opposed by the opponent's sense motive, right?

But what if you telling the truth? Presumably, the 'target' still makes a sense motive check, but what is the DC, and can the truth teller do anything to help?


glass.

PCs are free to beleive whatever they want. The only reason to roll would be so it is not blatantly obvious that the NPC is lying or not. Here are the four possible examples of what could happen and how the DM and PC would react to the rolls.

PC succeeds his Sense Motive vs. NPCs Bluff (and the NPC is NOT lying), the DM tells the PC that he doesn't think the NPC is being deceptive. The PC can then beleive what he wants.

PC fails his Sense Motive vs. NPCs Bluff (and the NPC is NOT lying), the DM tells the PC that he doesn't think the NPC is being deceptive. The PC can then beleive what he wants.

(as you see, no difference between the two rolls and results)

PC succeeds his Sense Motive vs. NPCs Bluff (and the NPC IS lying), the DM tells the PC that he thinks the NPC is being deceptive. The PC can then beleive what he wants.

PC fails his Sense Motive vs. NPCs Bluff (and the NPC IS lying), the DM tells the PC that he doesn't think the NPC is being deceptive. The PC can then beleive what he wants.

However, the final end result is, the PC takes into consideration what the DM says after the Bluff/Sense Motive check and makes up his own mind of how is character percieves what the NPC is saying...

 

[IcyCool]

To convince someone of which is not true, you make a bluff check opposed by the opponent's sense motive, right?

But what if you telling the truth? Presumably, the 'target' still makes a sense motive check, but what is the DC, and can the truth teller do anything to help?


glass.

If someone is telling the truth, I still make a roll for their bluff (I don't actually use it), and I have the player roll a sense motive check. No matter what the player rolls, I tell them, "He seems to be telling the truth" or "He doesn't appear to be lying."

 

[shilsen]

If someone is telling the truth, I still make a roll for their bluff (I don't actually use it), and I have the player roll a sense motive check. No matter what the player rolls, I tell them, "He seems to be telling the truth" or "He doesn't appear to be lying."

That's what I do, and I figure that fits with the RAW. Sense Motive lets you know if someone sounds truthful even if he may be lying (assuming you make the check). In the case of someone telling the truth, whatever your Sense Motive check, he seems truthful.

 

[Thanee]

There's a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (IIRC) to discern, whether a person seems trustworthy.

But I'd use Diplomacy to convince someone of your trustworthiness, if it is honest.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Crothian]

I put down the dice and use the Role Playing part of the game for this.

 

[IcyCool]

I put down the dice and use the Role Playing part of the game for this.

I don't suppose you are looking to join a game in the Montana area? I'd love to have you stop by and show my players a thing or two. Not that they'd listen, mind you.

 

[Crothian]

I don't suppose you are looking to join a game in the Montana area? I'd love to have you stop by and show my players a thing or two. Not that they'd listen, mind you.

You'd be amazed what some good positive reinforcement and examples of a different style of game play can actually do. But Montana is way out of my gaming area at the moment.

 

[Starglim]

a) Provide proof. If the other person is highly committed to his false belief he may have to make an Intelligence or appropriate Knowledge or Profession check.

b) Diplomacy - not sure what skill would oppose the check though. Intimidate? Will save?

c) Other person may get a Sense Motive check (DC 20) to get a hunch that you are trustworthy.