How do you deal with canon fanatics?

[maddman75]

On my list of games I want to run someday is a 'Mythic Forgotten Realms' game. The characters are from some small community, maybe one of the Dales. They can use anything they've read in a sourcebook or novel as in-character knowledge. They've grown up hearing these tales or great figures. But those are only stories, and I will not attest to the accuracy of any of them. Maybe in this Realms, Elminster is just a simple sage. Wise, but hardly a powerful mage and certainly not a god-boffer. Drizzt Do'Urden was a drow mercenary that the ten-towns hired to put down a goblin uprising. Breunor Battlehammer never met Drizzt, he died over three hundred years ago searching for Mithral Hall. The stories got mushed together because they're from the same area. They'll constantly hear of these great heroes of legend but they always seem to be just beyond the horizon. In the here and now, people will need real heroes.

And then every once in a while, just to keep them on their toes, the legends will be exactly right.

 

[jdrakeh]

On my list of games I want to run someday is a 'Mythic Forgotten Realms' game. The characters are from some small community, maybe one of the Dales. They can use anything they've read in a sourcebook or novel as in-character knowledge. They've grown up hearing these tales or great figures. But those are only stories, and I will not attest to the accuracy of any of them. Maybe in this Realms, Elminster is just a simple sage. Wise, but hardly a powerful mage and certainly not a god-boffer. Drizzt Do'Urden was a drow mercenary that the ten-towns hired to put down a goblin uprising. Breunor Battlehammer never met Drizzt, he died over three hundred years ago searching for Mithral Hall. The stories got mushed together because they're from the same area. They'll constantly hear of these great heroes of legend but they always seem to be just beyond the horizon. In the here and now, people will need real heroes.

And then every once in a while, just to keep them on their toes, the legends will be exactly right.

I would play that in a heartbeat

 

[WayneLigon]

I've never really had to deal with a canon fanatic. I've usually run homebrews even though some like oWoD were certainly influenced by the canon material. The times I've run in established settings there either were no other players that knew the canon by heart, or they didn't much care if I changed things.

I'd be interested in hearing how more people dealt with this problem since I'm sure it will happen to me at some point.

 

[ruleslawyer]

First off, I find it hugely ironic when people start talking about "canon" with respect to FR, since the setting's own creator has repeatedly stressed that details of the setting stress myth, rumor, and folklore over actual fact. Elminster could be a 29th-level wizard who learned at the feet of Arkhon "the Old" 500 years ago; he could be a godling who has lived through over a thousand years of Netherese arcanus and Elven high magic. He could just be a smart-@$$ sage. That's the whole point!

That said, the IMHO proper response to players who object to "non-canon" campaign elements: Just have a full and frank discussion with them in which you explain that you would prefer not using certain elements of the setting, or changing those elements, because you don't like them and feel it would make a better campaign to adapt them. Let them speak; hear them out. Try to find some points of compromise. If you severely disagree with them, or they still stonewall, then tell them to find another DM. Usually, however, this is something that can be worked out off stage.

 

[jdrakeh]

First off, I find it hugely ironic when people start talking about "canon" with respect to FR, since the setting's own creator has repeatedly stressed that details of the setting stress myth, rumor, and folklore over actual fact.

Greenwood saying that FR is really 'this way' despite the fact the the entire body of products portrays it 'that way' is kind of like the several White Wolf creators parroting the old party line about supernatural creatures being ultra-rare despite the fact that the actual products had them crawling out of every dark corner on Earth and running or protecting the whole damn world from behind a globe-spanning veil of supernatural conspiracy (actually, it's exactly like that).

That said, the IMHO proper response to players who object to "non-canon" campaign elements: Just have a full and frank discussion with them in which you explain that you would prefer not using certain elements of the setting, or changing those elements, because you don't like them and feel it would make a better campaign to adapt them. Let them speak; hear them out. Try to find some points of compromise. If you severely disagree with them, or they still stonewall, then tell them to find another DM. Usually, however, this is something that can be worked out off stage.

That's all well and good but it supposes sane, rational, people -- not the canon fanatics who I specifically mention for the purposes of this thread

 

[Lanefan]

Instead of saying "This campaign is set in the Forgotten Realms", say "This campaign's setting is *based on* Forgotten Realms" or "This campaign's setting uses Forgotten Realms *as a jumping-off point* for design"; make it clear they can expect modifications all over the place (even if there aren't), and let 'er rip. If they won't play on that basis, you're better off without 'em...

Lanefan

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

So, my question is, how do you deal with players who get overly excited when you, as the GM (or DM, if you prefer) add to or otherwise alter material for a given setting?

I don't deal with them. At most, I say "Hmm, is that what your PC has heard? Well, it seems he's received some inaccurate information somewhere along the line..."

 

[Olli]

well, get dark sun and hit them over the head with THAT cannon...

honestly, i did this once to reign in some FR powergamers and it worked wonder.


or like some other smart folks here said, get an obscure and little developed setting and go from there (freeport springs to mind,cause it is only a city without a world attached(no, i don´t know the new freeport book)).

 

[Blue]

Canon Fan: "NO! If you're not using it EXACTLY AS WRITTEN, you're using it WRONG!"

...

This drove me crazy in FR 2e and I don't see it sitting well with me anytime soon.

Explain to your players that varying from canon is a win for them, because it means you'll be open to large changes in the world that happen due to player actions.

I've been in an FR campaign that's been going since before 1990. Well, multiple campaigns set in the same world that could affect each other. Let me tell you, we have groups at all power levels, including several epic.

One large complaint is that if something comes out from WotC, it's non canon. Character's ages have changes as they put some event at a different time. Nations have sprung up. Lot of things that hit PC continuity below the belt have happened because they are canon, and are introduced mid campaign. This got worse because we were several years ahead of canon (we gamed faster then they advanced it), and then things like Myth Drannor disappearing after we spent time adventuring in it was a big blow.

On the other hand, we can't have large sweeping changes because it would take us off canon. One epic character was a Purple Dragon Knight who ended up high in the organization and working with King Azun and Vangurtahast (sp?) and when Azun died there was talk about him getting involved in the succession, but as players we knew that the successor was whomever the books said it was.

Now, the DM is skillful in working those things in (and in much else), but it still felt that we couldn't have a major change on the world. (Mind you, he has let us make significant changes in other places that aren't as detailed, but even there canon has nipped in.)

So really, let the players that you're running your interpretations of the world. It may not be exactly as the players know - but that's for the good, both in keeping things fresh and for having a world where the players can make a difference.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)

 

[Darklone]

One of the reasons I don't play Vampire nor FR nor DSA (German RPG).

Still... my friends usually aren't that fanatic. And I prefer to play with friends.