How do you deal with captured PCs?

[Asmor]

I think this is "gamer logic" rather than "real world logic." They gamers sees the pluses and decides that it's the only right move.

Look at the real world. When police capture suspects do they strip them naked and leave them that way? Do soldiers strip enemy soldiers and leave them that way? Do hostage takers normally strip their captives? While there are exceptions, they are rare or brief (usually for searches).

There are reasons it doesn't happen that often in the real world. A practical one is that, when is hostile areas, you just made yourself a target. When a hostage taker strips his hostages naked the snipers know to aim for the clothed people. A more common reaction is that these things "just aren't done" and there are repercussions for those that break these societal rules.

This shouldn't happen any more often in a game than it does in the real world. That it does is usually a sign that either the DM wants to humiliate his players, or that he is looking at the small picture.

Well, I think you're using a bit of a modern bent in your logic. Thinking back to all the pictures and movies I've seen of Jewish slaves building pyramids, they pretty much just had a loincloth. I don't claim to be a history buff or anything (actually, I hate history), but I'd say that sets good precedent for the idea.

There are also additional factors, including the level of "civility" vs. "savagery" and I imagine that a slave taker wouldn't be quite so worried about exposing his slaves if they were a different species, particularly if the slave taker considered the slaves to be of an inferior species.

For example, if elves took slaves, I'd definitely imagine that they'd give them some surprisingly nice, if minimal, clothing. A barbarian tribe's slaves might wear only loin cloths, and neogi would probably just strip them and toss 'em in a pile until they get them to market.

 

[KingCrab]

Make sure they get branded so they can fondly look back and remember their imprisonment.

 

[Scribble]

Make sure they get branded so they can fondly look back and remember their imprisonment.

Or that time they drank too much on Spring Break...

 

[Oryan77]

I always hear people say that you should never capture PCs because it leads to railroading. So basically, you should never go adventuring because it leads to railroading?

Being captured should be just as much of a threat as being killed. I understand most players like to kill first and use Speak with Dead second...but a lot of people actually like to ask questions before killing their enemy...even bad guys.

Plus, how can you run a gladiator fight if the PC's aren't captured

 

[Scribble]

I always hear people say that you should never capture PCs because it leads to railroading. So basically, you should never go adventuring because it leads to railroading?

Being captured should be just as much of a threat as being killed. I understand most players like to kill first and use Speak with Dead second...but a lot of people actually like to ask questions before killing their enemy...even bad guys.

Plus, how can you run a gladiator fight if the PC's aren't captured

I think the issue isn't really that capturing in and of itself leads to railroading... It's in the idea that basing an adventure around the characters getting captured leads to railroading...

In my experience a lot of players seem kind of insane when it comes to giving up... "Give up... and loose my stuff??? NEVER!!! TO THE DEATH!"

So if you base your adventure around what happens after the PCs are captured, and they decide to fight to the death... The in starts to lead to railroading, and other absurdities... "Wait... suddenly there are MORE uber awesome fighters approaching from yonder hill... AGAIN?"

 

[Oryan77]

So if you base your adventure around what happens after the PCs are captured, and they decide to fight to the death... The in starts to lead to railroading, and other absurdities... "Wait... suddenly there are MORE uber awesome fighters approaching from yonder hill... AGAIN?"

Yeah I know what you mean. I've had players that did that before and I still shake my head to this day. That mentality taught me a lesson though...if you need to capture them, don't give them any hope of survival. I've realized that when the odds are way too much (but not ridiculous) then they say to themselves, "we have no choice". If they are still dumb enough to fight...then so be it. A hero should be smart & know when to pick his fight. If you die because you don't want to hand over your junk...then the bad guys still take your cool stuff from your dead body instead of your living body

It's in the idea that basing an adventure around the characters getting captured leads to railroading...

People throw out the word railroading all the time like it's always a bad thing. Under certain circumstances, I've never seen it as a bad thing when its handled properly. Capturing PCs in order to setup another possible pathway in an adventure is no different then starting everyone off in a bar at level one and having the old man rush in and ask for their help in rescuing his daughter. It should be a plot hook, not a way to take advantage of the PCs.

I've captured PC's a few times simply because it led up to an interesting scenario. If it was deliberate, I always give them plenty of chances to get their loot back. If it was spurt of the moment because the PCs were losing a fight, I might not be so lenient.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

It hasn't happened IMC yet. When it does, and I imagine it might, it'll depend on who does the capturing.

If, say, the Black Reaver goblins capture a player character, they'll probably ransom them. They're traders, bandits and mercenaries, and turning a profit is the big goal for most of them. (Their new leader, though, might have different ideas.)

If the Green Mountain Kobolds capture a player character, they'll likely keep them prisoner and interrogate them, since the kobolds are planning to wipe out the barony. There won't necessarily have to be a traditional rescue operation, though, since there are multiple warring factions of kobolds (thanks to their previous dragon ruler intentionally disrupting kobold social norms to better control them), some powerful spellcaster kobolds who might want to send the character back altered and even the kobolds' leader might want to send the prisoner back, just to keep the peace a little longer -- unless the kobolds' plans are almost finished, that is.

My group seems to view being taken prisoner as a serious threat, though, which is how it should be, IMO.

 

[Scribble]

People throw out the word railroading all the time like it's always a bad thing. Under certain circumstances, I've never seen it as a bad thing when its handled properly. Capturing PCs in order to setup another possible pathway in an adventure is no different then starting everyone off in a bar at level one and having the old man rush in and ask for their help in rescuing his daughter. It should be a plot hook, not a way to take advantage of the PCs.

I've captured PC's a few times simply because it led up to an interesting scenario. If it was deliberate, I always give them plenty of chances to get their loot back. If it was spurt of the moment because the PCs were losing a fight, I might not be so lenient.

This is one of those I agree and disagree moments.

Some railroading, if done sort of behind the scenes is ok in my opinion... But if done blatantly, and in a way that sort of cheapens the characters, or the strategies of the players, then it's bad.

AKA you make a challenge that you plan to capture the PCs with. Like a horde of warriors you hope will scare them into submission... Instead, however, they decide to fight. Low and behold they beat your warriors through crafty thinking, and well done tactics... Maybe only by a small margin, but they still win. Now your players are quite proud of themselves.

But then you introduce your railroad factor of more guards, extra hitpoints, anything...

In my eyes, thats akin to say loosing all your pieces in checkers and suddenly declaring that you win simply because you've changed the rules, and now the person who looses all his pieces first wins...

 

[GlassJaw]

So this past Sunday the group was captured and tied up by rat people.

First off, I hope they were captured legitimately. If you railroaded them into capture, it won't end well.

As others have mentioned, capturing the PC's is never good, basically because it leads to something like what happened in your game. The PC's had to choose which one of them would die? Even if the rat people would deal with captives that way (which I find odd), there's no fun to be gained by having that happen. I'm not saying you shouldn't kill PC's but killing a player's character die without giving the player a chance to survive isn't something I would do. Again, it's not fun if the player feels helpless to prevent their character from dying.

That aside, why did the ratmen let two of them leave? What is their alignment? Intelligence? Are they the minions of some more powerful boss or do they operate independently? Do they have an alliance with any other races or organizations?

First off, I would have figured out some reason that the ratmen would keep them alive. If you've captured the PC's, at least give them a chance to escape, even if without their gear. That can lead to an exciting game.

If the ratmen wouldn't keep them alive for any reason, have them do something stupid and allow for the PC's to take a shot at escaping. Have the ratmen's lair raided by more adventurers or other monsters. Something, anything.

 

[GlassJaw]

People throw out the word railroading all the time like it's always a bad thing. Under certain circumstances, I've never seen it as a bad thing when its handled properly. Capturing PCs in order to setup another possible pathway in an adventure is no different then starting everyone off in a bar at level one and having the old man rush in and ask for their help in rescuing his daughter.

It is absolutely different. Railroading the PC's into capture is NEVER good. Never, ever.

If you have to change the rules to railroad the PC's into a situations, you've lost. It's the ultimate bad DM move. Your players will cross their arms, roll back their eyes, and slump back in the chairs. Good luck on winning them back.

The players must feel like they always have a choice and a chance.