How do you deal with Hardness 20? (Spoilers for The Infernal Syndrome)

[MerricB]

Quick question: you're a 8th level party. You have no adamantine weapons, and you come across an animated construct you MUST defeat that has Hardness 20.

You cannot get adamantine weapons, and you are limited to the Core Rulebook.

Assume a party of four characters: Cleric, Rogue, Fighter and Wizard. What can you do against this creature? (And you *must* destroy it).

Cheers!

 

[N'raac]

What's it made of? Finding something that affects that material is probablty your best bet.

 

[Varthol]

re

What's it made of? Finding something that affects that material is probablty your best bet.

Perhaps your best bet...

On a side note, what scrolls/magic items could u get? Stone to Flesh/Transmute X to Y and spells like that should lower its Hardness i think...

 

[Alzrius]

If it has hardness 20, it's made out of adamantine, so I have to ask if this thing is an animated object with hardness, or a construct with damage reduction?

I ask because there is a difference - damage reduction doesn't touch energy damage, whereas hardness can apply to energy damage. Simply put, they should use a combination of spellcasting and energy damage (e.g. flasks of acid, alchemist's fire, etc.) to wear it down. Ideally while tripping or otherwise restricting its movement.

 

[Kaisoku]

As Bill Cavalier would put it: "PUNCH YOUR DM IN THE FACE!"



"Limited to the Core rulebook" is upsetting, considering some of the nice combos you could throw at this that would promote teamwork (Butterfly's Sting, for one).

But even in core there's high strength, two-handed weapons, power attack, enlarge person and vital strike.
Give a standard barbarian, ranger (w/ favored enemy) or fighter a greatsword and enlarge person, and watch him power attack and vital strike for an average damage in the mid-40s or higher. Other melee can aid another to make sure he hits.

Summon a bunch of lantern archons. Light rays bypass everything iirc.
Find an energy damage that the construct is weak against (there's rusting grasp, too).

Lastly, "defeat" is a nebulous term. Trick it into harmful environment, a trap, or into a place that lets you do what you need to do unmolested by it (like the bottom of a cliff). Also, tanglefoot bags. Repeat.
No need to play the hitpoint game if not needed.

Official supplemental books give some more interesting options, too. Seige weapons for one.. Nothing makes a statement quite like a cannon.

 

[MerricB]

It's an animated construct with hardness 20. Not DR.

You can only use the core rulebook because, at the time this encounter was printed, that was the only rules source available.

Lantern Archons: ignore damage reduction, not hardness.

"Tricking" is impossible. It does not leave the room where it is. And you MUST destroy it to complete the adventure.

Adamantine is not weak to any form of energy. Rusting Grasp does not affect it (it isn't a ferrous metal).

The only valid method I've yet seen is to buff the high-strength fighter and let him Power Attack it. Hope he doesn't go down to its 3 attacks/turn plus grab. Once grabbed, he can no longer use a 2-handed sword against it. (You can't even ranged attack it, as you halve the damage first before applying hardness).

 

[Kaisoku]

Well, you only said "hardness 20" before, so you are going to get a bunch of generic answers.

What printed material is this? Is the encounter meant to be a Kobayashi Maru test (you are intended to fail)? What's it's listed CR?

CR 11 (epic for APL 8) would have defensive stats of 145hp, good save of 14 and AC 25.
CR 11 is a Stone Golem.

If it's tougher than that, I'd call foul on the writeup. If it has very low hitpoints and saves, and perhaps low damage on each of those three attacks (and no other abilities on top of the grab), then it might be fine.
Slam it as hard as you can, with a Freedom of Movement up and maybe even Shield Other to soak damage. Aid Another to make sure you damage dealer can hit and go to town.

Without more information, I'm afraid I can't say what would work or not, though.

*Edit*
Oh wait, is this something that was made with Animated Object?
If this is the case, then I'd question the validity of the build (as an appropriate encounter for APL8):
- It only starts with one slam attack, and you can buy another one with extra CP, but it's questionable if you can keep buying more above that (why not just give it 10 attacks then?).
- The spell is 6th level, which means 11th level caster created it (Epic level for APL 8 already). This allows a Huge object (1 small creature per level, 8 for Huge, 16 for Gargantuan, so Huge is the limit).
- Huge starts with 4 Construction Points (CP), at CR 7. Adamantine metal requires 6 alone. This brings the CR up to 8 (+1 CR per 2 extra CP), before any other modifiers. Adding Grab and another Slam attack brings this up to CR 9. Start tacking on more stuff and we are looking at CR 10 or higher.

If this is by spell (even with permanency), then a Dispel Magic (or anti-magic), is entirely viable. If this was made with Craft Construct (to prevent dispelling), we are looking at a 35-40kgp creation (~20k cost). This is closer to 13th level+ in NPC wealth (if you consider spending ALL his cash on this one thing alone).

Regardless, I'm not sure why Adamantine weapons aren't an option here either. Seems like things are stacked against the party.

 

[MerricB]

The module is The Infernal Syndrome. It's the penultimate encounter (and you *must* defeat it to complete the adventure).

Liebdaga’s Cage CR 8
XP 4,800
Advanced animated object (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 14)
N Medium construct
Init +1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception –3

DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 10, flat-footed 21 (+1 Dex, +12 natural, –1 size)
hp 52 (4d10+30)
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will –2
Defensive Abilities hardness 20; Immune construct traits, fire

OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.; chained
Melee 3 slams +11 (1d8+8 plus 1d6 fire plus grab)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks constrict (1d8+8 plus 1d6 fire)

TACTICS
During Combat The cage cannot leave this chamber, and remains animated as long as there are visible targets. The cage itself is red hot, and inflicts additional fire damage on each hit. In addition, for every cooling chamber left active, the cage gains 2 points of fast healing—the stats here assume all five cooling chambers are deactivated.
Morale The cage fights until destroyed.

STATISTICS
Str 26, Dex 12, Con —, Int —, Wis 5, Cha 5
Base Atk +4; CMB +13 (+17 grab); CMD 24

SPECIAL ABILITIES
Chained (Ex) Liebdaga’s cage can effectively move at a speed of 30
feet as if under the effects of air walk, as it moves by shifting its
position in the room by lengthening or shortening the chains
that hold it in the room. It cannot leave area F37 at all.

 

[Kaisoku]

Well, at 52 hitpoints it's going down in a couple rounds, at best (vs avg damage 45+ attacks).

Shield Other + Freedom of Movement from a cleric (to prevent grab/constrict and help counter damage), Enlarge Person to boost damage and level the reach playing field and Protection from Energy from the Wizard, and flanking or Aid Another from a Rogue to boost the Fighter's chance to hit.

Sounds like the standard party should be able to deal with this. A party without a two-handed fighter might want to have at least one adamantine weapon amongst them to deal with golems and other DR situations.

A single well shot Construct Slaying Arrow would practically take this thing down at 50 damage for a failed Fort save (it specifically calls out that it works on constructs, despite immunities). With only a +1 Fort save and a DC of 20, this is likely to happen (needs to roll a 19 or 20 to pass, 90% chance to fail).

There might be more options, but just beating it to death with enough protection (meaning, little preparation required) seems enough.

 

[MerricB]

One thing I've been fascinated to see in Pathfinder is how it forces you into having certain characters in the group.

A 2-handed wielding fighter or barbarian
A single class Wizard or Sorcerer
A single class Cleric
Possibly a Rogue

If you don't have the first three, you will NOT be able to deal with the threats in a typical adventure.