D&D 5E How do you interpret the green-flame blade and booming blade somatic component?

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
The attack is the somatic component of the spell.
The attack cannot be the somatic component to the spell. The effects of a spell do not occur until the spell is finished casting. The attack is part of the effects of the spell, not the casting of the spell, so must come after the casting of the spell is complete.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
This does become an issue in that RAW you cannot benefit from a magical focus that is not a weapon when casting these spells. And for artificers, they can only use it with a weapon that they have already infused: "You must have a spellcasting focus—specifically thieves’ tools or some kind of artisan’s tool—in hand when you cast any spell" "you can also use any item bearing one of your infusions as a spellcasting focus".
Why not? You can't use a magical focus to replace a costly material component anyhow, so every M&S casting would have your with your focus readied (in hand, on shield, etc) and your costly material component in another. There is no issue with a weapon in one hand and a focus in the other - that is not prevented by RAW.

If you mean that they can't also have a shield, sure. But that will be true for every single spell they cast with a costly material component as it would take a hand and the shield would take a hand -- that is not limited to the melee cantrips.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
For all the talk people usually go into regarding wanting an individual and set "arcane warrior" class... there seems to be an awful lot of attempts by some folks in this thread to make that type of class untenable.

What's wrong with just going the most common sense route here? You swing a sword and magic happens along with it? The spell components being the weapon itself as the material component, and the act of swinging it being the somatic? And if you can't do one of them (have the weapon in hand(s), or using said weapon in hand(s)) then the magic spell that accompanies it doesn't work either?

At some point getting this far into the mechanical weeds is a fool's errand.
 

The attack cannot be the somatic component to the spell. The effects of a spell do not occur until the spell is finished casting. The attack is part of the effects of the spell, not the casting of the spell, so must come after the casting of the spell is complete.
Yes. So probably the swinging of the sword is the casting. And the stab comes after that. At some point of your swing the blade ignites.
 
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You can always use the hand that holds the m component to perform s components. Hence "waving your wand".

RAW, RAI, "brandishing your weapon" is the s component.

This does become an issue in that RAW you cannot benefit from a magical focus that is not a weapon when casting these spells. And for artificers, they can only use it with a weapon that they have already infused: "You must have a spellcasting focus—specifically thieves’ tools or some kind of artisan’s tool—in hand when you cast any spell" "you can also use any item bearing one of your infusions as a spellcasting focus".
Which becomes a non issue. Because why would you not use an infusion on your weapon if you plan to attack with it...
Especially when you are a battlesmith, because with no magical weapon they use strength to attack as anyone else...
But they are also the most unlikely to use greenflame blade as they can extra attack.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Yes. So probably the swinging of the sword is the casting. And the stab comes after that. At some point of your swing the blade ignites.
However you'd like to describe it. The point I was refuting was someone saying that the attack was part of the casting - specifically the somatic component, while really the attack is the effect of the casting and therefore only happens once casting is complete.
 

Oofta

Legend
However you'd like to describe it. The point I was refuting was someone saying that the attack was part of the casting - specifically the somatic component, while really the attack is the effect of the casting and therefore only happens once casting is complete.
They don't describe the somatic component so it's largely left up to the group to decide what it is. What does it matter how it's depicted? The somatic component can be completed with the hand holding the material component, in this case the material component is the weapon making the attack.
 


You can always use the hand that holds the m component to perform s components. Hence "waving your wand".

RAW, RAI, "brandishing your weapon" is the s component.

This does become an issue in that RAW you cannot benefit from a magical focus that is not a weapon when casting these spells. And for artificers, they can only use it with a weapon that they have already infused: "You must have a spellcasting focus—specifically thieves’ tools or some kind of artisan’s tool—in hand when you cast any spell" "you can also use any item bearing one of your infusions as a spellcasting focus".
Are there any magical focuses that require you to cast a spell with them to work? All the ones I remember only require the caster to be holding the item to receive the benefits.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
They don't describe the somatic component so it's largely left up to the group to decide what it is. What does it matter how it's depicted? The somatic component can be completed with the hand holding the material component, in this case the material component is the weapon making the attack.
I don't care one whit about how the somatic component is described.

However, the effect of a spell can not go until the casting is completed. The attack is part of the effect, so it preforce can not be part of the casting.

Effect of spell does not happen until casting is complete. Attack is part of the effect in both BB and GFB. Therefore, attack is not part of casting.

Narratively, if you want to describe the start of a swing as the somatic component, please go ahead. Please do.

Mechanically though the attack doesn't start until the effect. If, for instance, the spell is counterspelled, there was no attack. If they try to cast the spell in an anti-magic sphere, there is no attack. Because mechanically the attack is the effect (clearly listed in the spell description and not up to debate) and not actually the somatic component.
 

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