How do you define "Heartbreaker?"

[Aldarc]

...well if you take it from the source, here are his four distilled nuggets of definition...

• None them demonstrate critical perspective regarding role-playing techniques. The authors played Old D&D, and their decisions demonstrate patch rules, unquestioned assumptions, and "innovations" all founded on this single template.
• They all represent the same solutions to problems in the design of D&D, especially in terms of generating a functional Gamist/Simulationist hybrid.
• The games have one great idea buried in them somewhere. They are not "only" AD&D knockoffs and hodgepodges of house rules; they are products of actual play, love for the medium, and determined creativity.

"That's why they break my heart, because the nuggets are so buried and bemired within all the painful material I listed above."​

• It is killing, just killing, to contemplate the authors' naivete about the actual market and nature of RPGs as a business.

"Economics is the second reason that these games break my heart: basically, they were and are doomed.​

​

It is not fair to dismiss the games as sucky - they deserve better than that, and no one is going to give them fair play and critical attention unless we do it. Those nuggets of innovation might penetrate our minds, via play, in a way that prompts further insight."​

...i think there's an element of each popular interpretation in his essay...

Usually all this means as an end result is that there aren't enough reasons to switch from D&D to the Heartbreaker.

 

[Cordwainer Fish]

 

[dragoner]

Someone described Kosmic as a "Traveller Heartbreaker" I mean it is the core rules for the Solis People of the Sun universe, and while it has innovative rules, SPOTS can be played with straight Traveller, or other systems such as M Space. People have also written that they are using GURPS, and Mothership; and as such I don't know, Kosmic definitely works, it is mostly just the Mongoose Traveller SRD, Cepheus Engine SRD by Jason "Flynn" Kemp, as well as original work.

 

[John Lloyd1]

Someone described Kosmic as a "Traveller Heartbreaker" I mean it is the core rules for the Solis People of the Sun universe, and while it has innovative rules, SPOTS can be played with straight Traveller, or other systems such as M Space. People have also written that they are using GURPS, and Mothership; and as such I don't know, Kosmic definitely works, it is mostly just the Mongoose Traveller SRD, Cepheus Engine SRD by Jason "Flynn" Kemp, as well as original work.

I have a hard time seeing an electrum best seller as a heartbreaker. It seems to me a key part of the definition from Edwards and common usage is the devastating lack of interest from the rpg community. I.e it sinks without a trace.

 

[GMMichael]

I've seen this term used a lot lately, but I don't have a clear sense of how people define it, and I suspect that this has led to some talking past one another. I'm curious how you personally define this term.

The RPG usage has a sort of sarcastic tone to it to me, so I only use "heartbreaker" when she calls me another guy's name . . .

 

[dragoner]

I have a hard time seeing an electrum best seller as a heartbreaker. It seems to me a key part of the definition from Edwards and common usage is the devastating lack of interest from the rpg community. I.e it sinks without a trace.

That makes me feel better. My own feeling or personal definition was a passionate work, that is broken. Not necessarily accurate.

 

[Maxperson]

For me it's an RPG with a lot of potential, but which doesn't hit that mark, possibly failing like @Umbran described. For instance, if Daggerheart is mismanaged and ends new product creation this year or next, that would be a heartbreaker. Daggerheartbreaker?

 

[John Lloyd1]

That makes me feel better. My own feeling or personal definition was a passionate work, that is broken. Not necessarily accurate.

I do think that creator feelings and expectations is also part of the mix. If you just through a product out there without an expectation that it will be appreciated, then your heart can't be broken even if nobody takes an interest. Both creator investment and a lack of community response are required.

Being a highly derivative work and creator naivety are possible causes of a heart-breaker, not definitional.

 

[dragoner]

I do think that creator feelings and expectations is also part of the mix. If you just through a product out there without an expectation that it will be appreciated, then your heart can't be broken even if nobody takes an interest. Both creator investment and a lack of community response are required.

Being a highly derivative work and creator naivety are possible causes of a heart-breaker, not definitional.

I was filing a niche of using accurate star maps. I think with settings it is easier to be original, than making up rules sets. I mean I understand that armor rules in BRP might not be the greatest, though how much work is it going to be to correct it? That feels like a heartbreaker, I guess ultra-simulationist in that way, and a lot more. There are a lot of OSR rules sets, I don't know if they are filling a niche, or just bespoke rules for settings.