How do you determine a "Real Bad Dungeon Master"

FreeTheSlaves said:
Mary Sue - isn't that when an author injects a loved one into their story as a character? Very poor form.

Mary Sue is an old term with its origins in Star Trek fandom, specifically referring to fanfiction, but it's grown into larger use. Primarily, a Mary Sue character is a thinly vieled surrogate for the author, who is inserted into a story and functions basically as something like a fantasy/wish-fulfillment scenario within an established context. The characters name often is close to the authors (Mary Sue's author might be Mellisa Cheryll, for example). The classic example is a new ensign comes to the Enterprise, Mary Sue Prescott, who Captain Kirk falls madly in love with and brings her out of her shell (usually from some vague traumatic past) and then she manages to save the Enterprise when no one else can. And yes, it's very poor form, particularly in an RPG.

Pinotage said:
Not to hijack the thread, but can someone explain to me exactly what Railroading means?

Railroading, as long as I've known it, commonly refers to the process of forcing the players to play out a plot, regardless of their actions or choices. Typically, the DM has conceived of a story or way that a module will play out and will actively thwart players efforts that might threaten that plot. A classic example is the DM who has NPCs take actions that are non-sensical in context of the game, but which makes sense in the metagaming sense of preventing the players from some specific goal or action.

For example: say that the DM has created a super-powerful NPC that he then has beat the party. The NPC is meant to be a long term villain and the PCs are not supposed to be able to defeat him, but a particularly clever PC thinks up a strategy using a cantrip that renders the NPC vulnerable, and is then told by the DM that the spell fails or the stratgem fails and gives a hastily, often poorly or not-at-all thought-out excuse as to why it fails.

A railroading DM will render PCs as little more than rats in a maze, following the scent of the cheese; any attempts to move outside the arbitrary boundaries are slapped down, often leaving a bad taste in the PCs mouth, and leaving them feeling that they are not actively in control of the game or their characters. The railroading DM often doesn't understand why the PCs are unhappy and often thinks them ungrateful for all the work he's done, failing to recognize that they don't appreciate becoming little more than NPCs. The lightest version of this is the "this is so cool" DM who has created a trap or combat he's incredibly proud of (and which there is no way the players can avoid, regardless of approach or strategy); the extreme version is where the PCs are actively told what their characters would do, and are told (without even an explanation) that some things fail and that this is how the story MUST progress.
 

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FreeTheSlaves said:
Mary Sue - isn't that when an author injects a loved one into their story as a character? Very poor form.

Not exactly; "Mary Sue" is a term from fanfics, where the fanfic writer's "alter ego" is the bestest, most beloved, whizzbangest character around, and all the characters from the setting are in love or amazed by or otherwise orbit around them. Essentially like many bad DMs' pet NPCs.

Mary Sue, and How to Avoid Her

-The Gneech :cool:

EDIT: Yeah, what Magical Trevor WizardDru said!
 
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I've actually been considering putting a well-thought-out "mary sue" in my next game. I'm not worried about it being a problem or anything for one simple reason. The character will not be an idealized version of me. It will be real-life me, statted for d20 and transplanted into a fantasy setting. A first level expert, even if I were to fudge the dice in his favor, is not likely to drastically affect the PCs... especially if they're starting at 6th level.

More broadly, I think most of what makes good DMing is a combination of preparedness and humility. Being too attached to specific NPCs or plots, or not even having NPCs or plots set up beforehand, seem to be the recurring issues here. Rules knowledge also falls into preparedness. And I say "humility" because it seems to best describe the difference between DM and Author. If I could write a story where my hero saves the world, I would, but for me the joy lies in creating the world, the situations, and not in running through them. The players are the catalyst in gaming, putting life into my static world. Not to say the game world revolves around my PCs, but they are the inspiration, at least indirectly, for whatever growth occurs in our imaginary world.

For me, there is no story without PCs, just a slew of campaign notes. I respect what they bring to the table, just as they respect what I bring.
 

The_Gneech said:
Not exactly; "Mary Sue" is a term from fanfics, where the fanfic writer's "alter ego" is the bestest, most beloved, whizzbangest character around, and all the characters from the setting are in love or amazed by or otherwise orbit around them. Essentially like many bad DMs' pet NPCs.

EDIT: Yeah, what Magical Trevor WizardDru said!


Wow, sounds like Drizzt <ducks>
 

Their the one with the wallet that says, "Real Bad DM"

Didn't read the posts, so I hope no one else made this joke, but I could not resist....:)
 



WizarDru said:
A railroading DM will render PCs as little more than rats in a maze, following the scent of the cheese; any attempts to move outside the arbitrary boundaries are slapped down, often leaving a bad taste in the PCs mouth, and leaving them feeling that they are not actively in control of the game or their characters. The railroading DM often doesn't understand why the PCs are unhappy and often thinks them ungrateful for all the work he's done, failing to recognize that they don't appreciate becoming little more than NPCs. The lightest version of this is the "this is so cool" DM who has created a trap or combat he's incredibly proud of (and which there is no way the players can avoid, regardless of approach or strategy); the extreme version is where the PCs are actively told what their characters would do, and are told (without even an explanation) that some things fail and that this is how the story MUST progress.

OK, I think I understand this now. Thanks all for replying. I'm still concerned that railroading is in certain cases unavoidable, such as when you're playing one-shot adventures over a PbP medium. As such, many attempts at alternatives to a solution may result in players spending months posting through it while as DM you know it was a bad idea or wouldn't result in anything different and as such you're almost forced to railroad it to save time rather than let players slog through 3 months of posts to get the same conclusion. It's certainly given me food for thought in the PbP, one-shot adventure, scenario. Thanks all!

Pinotage
 


On Railroading

Friend of mine pointed out the other day why GMs railroad: They don't trust their players. Really, with few exceptions, it comes down to that.

Unless your group consists of people who will do anything to screw over the GM, they will likely follow your adventure/plot/whatever if you make it even slightly appealing. If you've thought things through, and know your players at all, you can take it easy, let go of the reigns, and they'll more or less follow the path. A little creative steering now and then may be necessary, but if you establish a goal, let them make the trip themselves.

It's something I need to work on myself as a GM.
 

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