How do you estimate XP for this encounter?

[MerakSpielman]

If you want the archers to pose more of a threat, put them behind cover (preferably arrowslits in the walls) and spread out to keep them safe(r) from area affect spells. Have the Blackguard give them +1 arrows and powerful bows. Have them ready actions to fire vollys at PC spellcasters if they start casting a spell. Make them be 1st level rogues (instead of fighter, as I am assuming you are doing) and let them attack from hiding. Etc...

 

[dcollins]

The Lord .... CR 12 Blackguard
A 10th-level Cleric .... CR 10
2 Spell-Touched Swordwraith .... CR 11 each
24 Guards .... CR 1/2 each
24 Archers .... CR 1/2 each

If I follow the usual rule, 24 guards and 24 archers will give no XP to PCs as their CR is too low. But I think they can still be some kind of threat to PCs. So want to give some amount of XPs for defeating them. How do you estimate XP for this encounter?

It is not too hard to mathematically combine CR's for complex encounters -- I've got a spreadsheet for it, I think I've seen another on the web someplace. Basically convert CR's to an equivalent number of CR 1 monsters, add them all up, and then convert back to EL (by the double-per+2-rule).

When I plug your listed encounter into my spreadsheet, I get an Encounter Level of 16 (equivalent to 156 CR 1 monsters). If I take all the guards and archers out, the result is only EL 15 (equal to 132 CR 1's), so it matches your intuition that they're significant enough to make some difference. If you had only 24 guards or archers, the mathematical result is still only EL 15.

 

[IceBear]

Dumb question, but I thought you assigned XP based on the individual CR of each of the individual creatures. I see all kinds of calcualtions for EL, so I now come to the conclusion that I've been calculating XP for encounters wrong?

IceBear

 

[Nail]

If you want the archers to pose more of a threat, put them behind cover .....

And since th' cleric is high enough level, it looks like it's time for a little bit o' Greater Magic Weapon action on those arrows they'll be using. If the cleric has the Persistant Spell feat, then he did it "yesterday", and he still has all of his spell available.

Probably masterwork mighty bows, right?

EL 14, depending on terrain and preparation.

 

[shilsen]

Dumb question, but I thought you assigned XP based on the individual CR of each of the individual creatures. I see all kinds of calcualtions for EL, so I now come to the conclusion that I've been calculating XP for encounters wrong?

IceBear

No, you're right in assigning XP by individual CR. EL has nothing to do with XP. It is simply a tool (if not a great one ) for DMs to use in figuring out how tough an encounter is for a specific party.

 

[IceBear]

No, you're right in assigning XP by individual CR. EL has nothing to do with XP. It is simply a tool (if not a great one ) for DMs to use in figuring out how tough an encounter is for a specific party.

Right, I know what EL is, but the original question was how to determine the XP for this encounter. That's why I was confused

Edit: Sorry, I just read the post (and not the title). He's looking for a modifier to the CR of the higher CR creatures for the lower level ones.

IceBear

 

[dcollins]

Dumb question, but I thought you assigned XP based on the individual CR of each of the individual creatures...

That is, of course, correct. However, the tables are set up so if you calculate EL and just award XP by that you do get the same number (subject to some rounding). Even the adjustment modifiers on DMG p. 167 create the same XP awards if you do it directly by XP or instead by EL.

So it's not true that "EL has nothing to do with XP" -- if you're calculating EL anyway, you can in fact award XP by the EL and get the same numbers.

 

[dkilgo]

You could use the 24 guards to split up into 3 groups, and aid another in grappling the melee PCs. Even if a few of the guards die by the attacks of the PCs there are enough left to over power them, and bring them to the ground. Nothing sucks more than a spell caster with no front line defense, archers all about, and the big baddies standing before him.

 

[Shin Okada]

Does Aid Another action add bonus to grapple check? Or only to the initial touch attack?

Assuming that adds to grapple check,

Grapple check is based on BSB + strength. Paladins and Barbarians already have 15+ or so of it and the guards have 3+.

One of the guard who attempt a grapple in a particular round will be cut down by AoA. So 2 of them should attempt grapple in one round. The first guards attempt grapple and be cut down. Other 6 aids the last one. The last one attempt grapple. That means, +12 bonus.

15+ vs 15+ .... seems good.

 

[dkilgo]

For that tactic to work you would have to have some properly generated 1st level guards there. I am assuming they are 1st level fighters, right?

I am not saying that you generated them wrong. Please don't take it that way. All I am saying is that you might want to look at using the standard tournament point buy system(which is 25 I believe. I most likely am wrong.), or (if you are using FR) use the Forotten Realms point buy system. (I think that is at 32. I might be wrong again.) I know that there is a difference in the two, and it places FR higher than the tournament.

Any way, that would bring your 1st level fighters up to par.