How do you handle selling magic items in your campaign? (New question on page 4)

[kigmatzomat]

The return on items varies on the route.

From "Bob the rich merchant" they get 50%, take it or leave it. Magic items sell slowly (few have the cash) and you have a lot of effort to protect them.

A divine caster can use his temple as a clearing house for most (but not all) items, getting closer to 60% list due to the fact the temple likely already has magic items they safeguard. (This is one of those things you don't get for being a cleric of "Good")

Wizards guilds often act as clearing houses for items, ensuring payment and safety between members. Items sell for 75% list and are bought for 85% list, with 10% going to the guild. Members can buy common item creation components for 50% list (that being stuff the guild bought off of non-guildmember adventurers for the normal 50% price.)

Lastly, the players can wait for a large city's annual fair (typically spring, mid-summer, or fall) and set up shop for a week or three. They can then negotiate for items. Negotiations start at 50% and are opposed bluff/sense motive rolls. The winner shifts the cost 1% for every point they exceed the opponent to the max acceptable (nothing will sell for free and only an idiot will sell a +1 magic sword for 10gp or pay 30,000gp). I generally assume a buyer has a skill total of +1/1,000gp in the item with the assumption that most buyers are the factors of nobles, churches, or other cash-rich organizations that are smart enough to have designated buyers.

 

[Shallown]

My players for the most part have developed relationships as they ahve grown in power with people who can buy/sell items for them. Some of the relationships are pure business and some are with people who have become friends as well as business contacts. Several players keep list of names for different specialities and such in various cities they frequent.

As to the actual price I usually adjust it up or down 10% maybe more depending on who is doing the buying (meaning I use Charisma, skills and prior relationships to adjust). I also adjust according to demand. The items that have no real use in the main city (like a foalding boat) go for a much lower price then the city on a sizable lake. I use common sense and knowledge of my world to make those decisions. I also don't have every item available in the book for immediate purchase. In fact once youget over a certain dollar amount or an unusual item you start having to commision items to be made.

For the most part I am fairly flexible with handling things this way. I think Core D&D is made to be run this way. I know some people decry the idea of a magic shop but the game is set up to have them, in my opinion, and to change it a great deal is a pain I would prefer just to run a different game system. Much the same reason I do high fantasy in D&D and not grim and gritty. I don't think D&D is designed to run it. It can be done and done well but takes more work than its worth when I could choose another system and have it all done for me. (Yes I sound lazy but since my other fantasy game preference is grim and gritty, no magic shops I use a system I created from scratch and is compelete as D&D I don't think I'm that lazy. More like the right tool for the right Job)

Later

 

[MerakSpielman]

There's always the confusing lack of continuity when the PCs craft an item, brand new, and try to sell it.

"Why can I only sell it at 50% price"

"Because PCs sell things at 50% so the merchant can make a profit."

"And adventurers have to buy things at 100% cost?"

"Yes, that's right."

"Can I just sell it to some adventurers myself, who would have been willing to pay the merchant 100% for it?"

"Ummmmmm...."

At that point I would allow a Gather Information check - perhaps synergied with Knowledge (local) - for each item being sold - trying to find a market for each one. You don't have to go through a middleman, it's just a lot more convenient and less time-consuming.

Just like in real life - if you write a book, you can avoid the expense of hiring an agent to promote it, but then you have to try to figure out how to do all the business-end stuff on your own.

 

[Vlos]

In our campaign (not the GM) we are Epic characters. Mostly we use our contacts, for example, one is a general to the King of an empire, and he ususally gets us the best price on weapons and armor, while other items get sold elsewhere. Usually its a diplomacy role with the low being 50%.

I sort of like the 40% + roll idea.

Modifiers would be diplomacy and gather information.
- Gather Information will find out who is wanting to buy it, rather than just selling it to a shop.

- Diplomacy will get you the best offer from that person.

Others could be Bluff
- Bluff trying to bluff the person that you have a higher bidder.

 

[scourger]

no.

it is just a nice sword.

so +1 thru +10 longsword sold by the PCs nets them.... 50% of a mw longsword... 315/ 2 = 157.5 gp

to buy one costs....

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

I've never played or DMed a D&D game with so much magic stuff around that it could just be sold down at Ye Olde Corner Magick Shoppe.

It feels much less "magical" to me.

 

[haiiro]

Here's my current draft version of a system based on the "40% + roll" idea:

1. To find a buyer: Gather Information check, DC = 15 + caster level of item. This takes 1 full day per check.

2. Once a buyer is found: Diplomacy check (haggling), with every point on your roll = +1% to the item's base sale price of 40% of MV. It takes 1d4 days to complete the sale.

Ad hoc adjustments can be made to take into account RP situations, previous contact with the buyer, evil items, etc. The DMG's guidelines for available wealth by settlement size still apply.

I really like using the idea of caster level as a mechanic to scale the DC of the GI check. I played around with using the MV of the item, but the system always broke with high value items (tens of thousands of gp, etc.). It also allows for items created with a higher CL than the "default" version to be worth more.

I also crunched some numbers using 30% base sale price + 2% per point on the Diplomacy check, and that creates a system whereby high level PCs with Diplomacy can actually sell the item for more than its MV. When my players and I were tossing around ideas yesterday, most of them liked the idea of rewarding social skill points in that way.

Some random thoughts about this system:

- It doesn't involve Appraise in any way, and I can't think of a way to do so without complexifying it more than I'd like. I'll probably just leave that part out.

- I think substituting Profession (Merchant) for either roll is appropriate, with both GI and Diplo. giving synergy bonuses to Prof. (Merchant). This rewards taking points in an underused skill -- and gives an incentive for PCs with no social skills to do the logical thing and hire a middleman.

- In some ways, it makes more sense to me for the GI roll to be the main determining factor in the final price -- finding the right buyer, the one who really wants the item, seems like it might be more important than finding a buyer and haggling them up to a good price. Not sure about this one -- and Ambrus's original "one roll, choose the skill" approach neatly sidesteps the whole issue.

- The idea of letting every point over the DC of the GI roll = +1% (or 2%, depending) to the final price holds some appeal -- this could represent that "right" buyer.

- The DC for the GI check can be fairly high, particularly for lower level characters. I thought about giving a cumulative bonus per day spent looking for a buyer -- probably +1 or +2/day -- but wasn't completely happy with the result. It also seems like after a certain point, no amount of searching will let you find a buyer (perhaps topping it out at 1 week of failed GI checks = wait at least 1 more week, then try again, starting from scratch?).

- Unless I'm forgetting something, skill checks in d20 always either have a DC to beat, or involve an opposed roll. The "open ended" Diplomacy roll -- no DC, as you've already found the buyer -- doesn't fit this model. I'm not sure whether that bothers me or not.

If you read through all of that, I'd love to hear what you think of it -- and hear more ideas in general. Like I said before, there's some great approaches in this thread.

 

[Vlos]

haiiro, I like your rules, though I am a bit sceptical about the GI DC of 15 + Caster Level. This works good if you are only selling a single item and even then it will require you figure out the caster level.

I would suggest the alternative to base it on the cost. This would allow you to sell single items as well as multiple items in one deal. Your higher level caster items will most likely cost more anyways so the DC will still increase with the more powerful magic items.

Originally I though you could calulate the COST-FACTOR (CF) by dividing the cost by 1000. thus a 3000gp item would have a CF of 3 for a total DC = 18. But this falls down on larger values or lots of items. Then I though ok at certain skill levels GI would give you a bonus, but after a bit of thought I just came to GI Skill ranks * 1000.

Thus a character with 1 skill rank of GI can sell an 1000gp item as easily as a character with 10 skill ranks can sell a 10,000gp item.

1,000gp / (1 skill * 1000) = CF(1)
10,000gp / (10 skill * 1000) = CF(1)

Now for selling really large amounts, (lets say you just cleared out a castle and have 100,000gp worth of items) you compute the time it takes similar to crafting an item.


Now taking 10.
A player with 10 skill ranks can sell off 20,000gp in 1d4 days. So he can sell off 100,000gp in 5 * 1d4 days.

A player with 20 skill ranks can sell off 30,000gp in 1d4 days. So he can sell off 100,000gp in ~3.5 * 1d4 days.

Now if they want to roll it, you just compute using the same logic.

Just some thoughts.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Oh boy, I like the 40% + diplomacy roll, to sell found items *yoink*
I also have annual trade fairs and a day holy to the god of Trade where "everything is 15% off !! "
This allows PCs to sell some items for 85% of value and pick up some good deals from other adventures. The last trade fair was as profitable as an adventure, but with negative xp for the 2 pc crafters.
Most magic buying and selling is done as craft of commision with the buyer paying full DMG price. It usually takes 1-2 weeks to scedual. Potions and scrolls are more readily avalible, many large temples, and all wizard colleges sell such items. (some only sell to graduates, or worshipers)

 

[haiiro]

Originally I though you could calulate the COST-FACTOR (CF) by dividing the cost by 1000. thus a 3000gp item would have a CF of 3 for a total DC = 18. But this falls down on larger values or lots of items. Then I though ok at certain skill levels GI would give you a bonus, but after a bit of thought I just came to GI Skill ranks * 1000.

I don't think I completely understand what you're getting at, Vlos. Does your CF idea involve a GI DC at all, or is the amount a PC can sell based on their # of ranks in GI? Or something else entirely?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Some random thoughts about this system:

- It doesn't involve Appraise in any way, and I can't think of a way to do so without complexifying it more than I'd like. I'll probably just leave that part out.

That's easy; the opponent won't spend more than his Appraise test tells him it's worth. People without appraise will hire an expert to appraise it for them.