How do you like (or don't like) the Savage Worlds rpg?

MGibster · Sep 25, 2021

Ixal said:
Which is imo also a problem, that you only have minions and "bosses". There is not much room for "not pushover enemies which are not special". Nor can you have different levels of bosses because the thoughness system breaks down at higher levels (already a problem in Rifts)

Minions can fit the "not pushover enemies which are not special" slot just fine. A more challenging Extra is going to have higher Traits, Toughness, and more Edges than your pushover minions. And the same is true with bosses because not all Wildcards are equal. A more challenging Wild Card will have higher Traits, Toughness (maybe), more Edges, or access to other abilities that makes them more difficult to defeat. One of the great things about SW is that I can just take a regular goblin, make it a Wild Card, and I instantly have a low level boss without having to do a lot of work.

Thomas Shey · Sep 25, 2021

Ixal said:
Which is imo also a problem, that you only have minions and "bosses". There is not much room for "not pushover enemies which are not special". Nor can you have different levels of bosses because the thoughness system breaks down at higher levels (already a problem in Rifts)

Though not standard, there's some room in between minions and Wild Cards; give them two wounds, or a wild die, or both.

As for higher level Wild Cards, well, you do that the same way you'd make a tougher PC. That's not any different than a lot of games.

Ixal · Sep 25, 2021

Thomas Shey said:
As for higher level Wild Cards, well, you do that the same way you'd make a tougher PC. That's not any different than a lot of games.

It is because of the way Savage World works. As the number of wounds is fixed, unless you houserule, the way to make enemies tougher is to make it less likely for them being damaged by increasing toughness. But when you increase it too much you get the problem that no one can hit unless he rolls exploding dice.

Savage World Rifts already has that problems with some enemies and PCs reaching toughness values of 40+. And that is just for normal powerful enemies, not special named ones.
Savage World was never made for this high toughness numbers. And because there is only a very limited range of values which still work it leads to many enemies looking the same.

Marc_C · Sep 25, 2021

All went fine until there was a TPK because of exploding damage. The group didn't want to play anymore.

MGibster · Sep 25, 2021

Ixal said:
It is because of the way Savage World works. As the number of wounds is fixed, unless you houserule, the way to make enemies tougher is to make it less likely for them being damaged by increasing toughness. But when you increase it too much you get the problem that no one can hit unless he rolls exploding dice.

That is a problem. Especially when the players don't use the rules to their advantage for Tricks, gang up bonuses, targeted shots, etc., etc. As with most point buy systems, it's also frustrating when one PC creates a super tank and the others are more well rounded. Bad guys that are a viable threat to the super tank will mop the floor with the rest of the PCs and it makes balancing encounters more challenging.

Thomas Shey · Sep 25, 2021

Ixal said:
It is because of the way Savage World works. As the number of wounds is fixed, unless you houserule, the way to make enemies tougher is to make it less likely for them being damaged by increasing toughness. But when you increase it too much you get the problem that no one can hit unless he rolls exploding dice.

Toughness isn't the only way. You can make them more accurate, you can give them Dodge, you can do a number of things. A lot of games have a limited number of ways to make enemies just take more damage.

Ixal said:
Savage World Rifts already has that problems with some enemies and PCs reaching toughness values of 40+. And that is just for normal powerful enemies, not special named ones.
Savage World was never made for this high toughness numbers. And because there is only a very limited range of values which still work it leads to many enemies looking the same.

I don't disagree with that, but as you see, I don't agree increased Toughness is the only, or even best way, to go.

Thomas Shey · Sep 25, 2021

Marc_C said:
All went fine until there was a TPK because of exploding damage. The group didn't want to play anymore.

Its something groups have to engage with or not. Games with nasty crits can pretty much do the same, though (ask any BRP player).

MGibster · Sep 25, 2021

Marc_C said:
All went fine until there was a TPK because of exploding damage. The group didn't want to play anymore.

Years ago I was running a Deadlands campaign and the PCs had a "minor" encounter with some alligators in a swamp. By the end of the fight, four of the PCs were down and the fifth one had three wounds. They rolled so incredibly poorly but my dice were just on fire hitting with raises and rolling 20+ damage.