How do you pit an 8th level character against a great wyrm?

DM-Frost

First Post
I'm currently running a low-to-mid-level campaign, but I want it to be long-running (to the point where a normal campaign would go into the high teens). I have some very fun ideas, but high-level play really takes away from the sort of "you against the world" epic fantasy feel that I love about mid-level play.

My question is this...has anyone come up with a way to run a campaign that is long-running and epic, but without taking away that intensity of low-to-mid-level play?

Whether you've actually come up with a way to continue a campaign without exceeding mid-level, or you know a way to make high-level play just as intense, any help is most appreciated.
 

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Design an evolving environment in advance to campaign arc. Your world will develop along with characters scaling challenges and keeping them on their toes.

Common ways to do this are:
  • Wars (from skirmishes to massive bloody campaigns)
  • Crusades or "stop this apocalypse" events
  • Multilevel dungeons
  • Characters advance through ranks of some organization and get assigned to higher profile jobs

More specific ideas of evolving environment would be:
  • Mafia war in a sinking city (Venice) in the advent of galloping hothouse event
  • Gold rush escalating into "something wicked stirs below"
  • Paizo adventure paths

Regards,
Ruemere
 

Mafia boss, that's how. A great wyrm makes a great stereotypical BBEG. I'm sure it's got lost of lower level lackey's who need to prove themselves against the PC's.
 

I'm a fan of bringing in planar elements, although it's not to everyone's taste. But even if you don't want people leaving the world behind, an invasion of Xill might be pretty fun.
 

You could also remake the dragon. It should of course still be dangerous, reaaally dangerous, but you could make it less of a god. I mostly play E6, and in the next one we're starting soon, the BBEG will be a powerful, old green dragon. How does that translate? Into a very young green dragon treated with two Giant Creature simple templates. It's Huge, has 7d12+35 hit points, and a CR of 8. And of course, it's got lots of minions.
 

find allies, that are enemies of the wyrm....he is the mightiest thing, by some distance in the land, and everyone, and i mean everyone, good, bad, indifferent wants to see him gone

all his enemies have tried to get rid of this dragon (ala ming the merciless), individually and failed

its up to the party to get them set aside their differences, even though the party are no match for it, and formulate a grand plan

the dragon stays CR 20
no PC/creature is more than CR6/7?

instead of going to dungeons to slay enemies, they go to recruit them.

25 incorporeal shadows, the mindless , fire immune, swarms, 50 invisible stirges, faster fliers

siege engines

1000 archers
 

I run a high level campaign (currently 19th) and I feel the intensity is good. I use a mix of lower and higher level encounters, and I keep the world very dynamic and response to events in the game.
 

I wonder if you might want to figure out a way to expand the levels so they can still "go up a level" at the normal rate, even it it's just to 8th level. Consider that you could give them a bonus feat once or twice a level, like an interim level-gain. This would have the same effect as in a Mutants & Masterminds game, where the Power Level (PL) is the same, but the characters get more points: the numbers they can play with don't change, but they can do more stuff at the same level.

example: the fighter is level 6, picks up their appropriate feats/abilities; for the sake of argument, she chooses Two-weapon fighting. Then, when they earn the normal xp for level 7, you keep them at level 6 but give them a feat; even from a select list. the Fighter picks Improved two-weapon fighting.

...yes, I've just outed myself as unfamiliar with PFRPG's updates of 3.x. I've started reading the SRD and I like a lot of what I'm seeing for the PCs. I don't even know if this is viable, but it seems like it could be.
Basically, I'm referencing D&D 3e here, and what I know of it.

OPTION TWO: pick things that really devastate your style of gaming (low-level play; not going to say "heroic tier"). Theoretically, this should mean getting rid of certain powerful spells used by PCs and NPCs, while keeping in things that counter what monsters do that makes PCs need those spells.

My older example would be Wish, certain divinations, teleporting spells, flight and suchnot; basically whatever the PCs could use to leave the classic battle mat area, or auto-kill things, or auto-find items or places and skip the plot (find the path, I'm looking at you!).

OPTION 3: Another thing to do is fix the math of monsters so they don't need magic items to stay on level. I had an army of Fire Giants slain in a pickup game by one PC with a Chain and Great Cleave; and the lich who drove them in one shot. I had never done high level, so I didn't know that Monsters needed save-buffing spells just as much as PCs did. guh!

So yeah, I hear you on the Epic level front. I've got zero experience with it, so I don't really know how to challenge PCs with it.
I'm aware of issues with power attack and damage reduction (something about having enough plus to hit with strength and magic and feats, that you can ignore BAB and AC and just do damage after a certain level), but not many others. and I don't even know if PFRPG fixed that!
 

Want to destroy a dragon at low levels? Quaal's Feather Token: Tree + sling = win!

Also depends on having a lenient DM with a slightly foolish dragon.
 

Bosses delegate.

If they run into the dragon at this level they should be toast (perhaps literally).

Dragons are arrogant, sometimes lazy. Make a ring of servants for the dragon. They players might slowly learn about the organization as they face the members.


Sigurd
 

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