How do you pronunce "grognard"?

How do you pronunce "grognard"?

  • "GROG-nerd" – /'ɡrɑɡnərd/ for those down with the International Phonetic Alphabet

    Votes: 4 3.6%
  • "grog-NARD" – /'ɡrɑɡnɑrd/ in IPA

    Votes: 65 59.1%
  • "gruh-NYAR(D)" – /ɡʀɔ'ɲaʀ/ in French, IPA

    Votes: 28 25.5%
  • some other way

    Votes: 13 11.8%


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Sir Brennen

Legend
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If I'm saying the whole word, 3.

If I'm shortening it to "grog", 2.

Re: melee unfortunately my brain is totally stuck on mee-lee (or more specifically m'lee), even though I know perfectly well that maylay is correct.
What does it say about me who says MAY-lee.
That feels like a Southern pronunciation, but not like Deep South. More like Kentucky or something maybe. I quite like it. "Gentlemen, you will stand seven paces apart and then engage in a maylee!".
 

aramis erak

Legend
In the context of D&D, I've always pronounced it "GRAWN-yard", sort of an American bastardization of the French pronunciation.
I tend to the groǧ-nard - where the ǧ is a voiced non-plosive sound, rather than the glottally stopped hard g at the front.
I don't grok IPA well enough to use it.
 


aramis erak

Legend
What does it say about me who says MAY-lee.
You don't apply the vowel-consonant-vowel rule... and mix classical and modern English vowel pronunciationss in the same word.

My preferred is may-lay (equal stress), or the variant on the French, which is closer to meh-LAY or muh-LAY, at least according to the Qebecois, Cajuns, and Creoles I've known say it.

Then again, I also usually prefer to see it spelled in English with diacritics, melée, witch makes it mee-LEE. (vowel-consonant-vowel rule, double e rule, acute accent denotes stressed syllable when not 1st. The diacritic French being mêlée...

I hate French orthography, but once you learn the "dozen oh's" (o, ou, eau, eaux, etc...), it's mostly consistent.
 

ThrorII

Explorer
Then again, I also usually prefer to see it spelled in English with diacritics, melée, witch makes it mee-LEE. (vowel-consonant-vowel rule, double e rule, acute accent denotes stressed syllable when not 1st.

Crap!?! You mean I actually pronounce it correctly based on English rules?????
 

aramis erak

Legend
Crap!?! You mean I actually pronounce it correctly based on English rules?????
Standard American English rules, yes. Most of the US doesn't use them, tho'. And the UK Received Pronunciation English rules are slightly different... but I've only taught US SAE. ;)
 

BigJackBrass

Explorer
Considering that most people voting think they stress the second syllable it's odd that everyone I've heard (talking about the gamers, not the historical troops) stresses the first, regardless of their nationality.
 




DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
Considering that most people voting think they stress the second syllable it's odd that everyone I've heard (talking about the gamers, not the historical troops) stresses the first, regardless of their nationality.
Agreed, I can't believe this is accurate. I think folks must be responding to the difference between 'nard' and 'nerd' more than the syllable emphasis. I've never once heard anyone put the emphasis on the second syllable. No emphasis at all, maybe, but never on the second syllable.

Fascinated to learn that it means 'old soldier' and was originally French. First time having that explained!
 

TolkienThePiss

Explorer
Agreed, I can't believe this is accurate. I think folks must be responding to the difference between 'nard' and 'nerd' more than the syllable emphasis. I've never once heard anyone put the emphasis on the second syllable. No emphasis at all, maybe, but never on the second syllable.

Fascinated to learn that it means 'old soldier' and was originally French. First time having that explained!
It actually, literally, meant a "Grumbler" and was supposedly a nickname bestowed upon the Imperial Grenadiers by Napoleon himself because they never stopped complaining. The name stuck around - there is a character in The Count of Monte Cristo (1846), a former Grognard, who lets everyone know that things were better under the old emperor and takes steps to put him back on the throne.

He'd fit in well in the Edition Wars - sweeping all of our 5e books off of the table and demanding we play his dusty old copy of Chainmail instead! Or at least spending the whole session lettings us know why Attack Matrices are better than adding up!
 


DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
It actually, literally, meant a "Grumbler" and was supposedly a nickname bestowed upon the Imperial Grenadiers by Napoleon himself because they never stopped complaining. The name stuck around - there is a character in The Count of Monte Cristo (1846), a former Grognard, who lets everyone know that things were better under the old emperor and takes steps to put him back on the throne.

He'd fit in well in the Edition Wars - sweeping all of our 5e books off of the table and demanding we play his dusty old copy of Chainmail instead! Or at least spending the whole session lettings us know why Attack Matrices are better than adding up!
Do you or anyone else on the thread know when we started using it? I am honestly a little surprised I never thought about this before, but I feel like this has to be the result of old wargamers -- or rather, young wargamers from a long time ago -- complaining about even older wargamers.

1986 start, incidentally, so I'm kind of a... grognennial? :p
 

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