How does Cooperative Spell Work?

[Cheiromancer]

No matter how many casters cooperate, only one spell goes off. Any other interpretation is blatant munchkinish weaseling (not to put too fine a point on it).

As a DM I can see how I can create some pretty impressive effects with Cooperative Spell. A cabal of wizards (or sorcerers), all with this feat, can be really scary. But as a player, how can I abuse it?

I mean, I can't guarantee that anyone else has the feat- even if I take Leadership, the DM is the one who determines the cohort's feats, not me. And in an archetypical party (Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard), which of the other characters is going to take Cooperative Spell?

Even if the party had two Mages of the Arcane Order, it is only a +2 to save DC's and +1 to caster level checks. We probably are the same level and have the same Intelligence. I don't see the problem.

The feat isn't really that complicated. IMO its description is perfectly clear.

If the example said "each fireball" instead of "the fireball," we wouldn't be having this discussion: it would be obvious that multiple spells go off.

However, I have argued that saying that a single spell going off requires one to read in whole sentences, and also requires one to make up house rules about who the controller of the spell is. The "multiple spells" interpretation doesn't require any reading in, nor any house rules involved, and should therefore be the preferred reading.

Let me suggest a parallel case: suppose one was describing what happens when you flank:

When you and an ally simultaneously attack a foe from opposite sides, the attack roll gets a +2 flanking bonus.

Now, this isn't the clearest wording possible. Is there one attack or two? Is "flanking" just the assist other action when used in combat?

Because we know what flanking means, we know that the sentence refers to each attack roll when it says "the attack roll". The sentence isn't incorrect, but it is unclear. I'm saying there is the same kind of ambiguity with cooperative spell.

Could you (or anyone else) spell out for me why this alternate reading is impossible? And/or how the alternate reading leads one to some kind of munchkin trick?

Much appreciated,

Cheiromancer

 

[CrimsonTemplar]

So you think one fireball with a slightly higher penetration check and DC is better than three fireballs?

No, I think it's more balanced, and that's the important part.

 

[colinfit20]

How to use Cooperate Spell Feat?

I was wondering what if your spellcaster having gained this feat say for example was a multiclass character say a Sorceror/Wizard 4th/2nd level bought a scroll bearing a Burning Hands spell with both Cooperate Spell and Delay spell feats added to it.
Now the scroll is safely cast to act the next round as the character casts a Cooperate Spell effected Burning Hands spell (no effective spell level change if I read correctly for Cooperate Spell) and according to some that would be 5d6 damage with a higher save DC and a bonus to penetrate Spell Resistance but little else.
Another reading says it does 5d6+ 4 or 2d6 damage depending on the character class casting the burning hands spell.
Am I reading your answers correctly and does this allow a single caster to get around using the Cooperate spell feat if they're the only caster available?

 

[Thanee]

Only one spell is cast. Every participant has to expend the spell, tho. One participant is chosen to decide all the effects, that need to be decided upon (target and stuff).

Bye
Thanee

 

[apesamongus]

The feat isn't really that complicated. IMO its description is perfectly clear.

Yes, the description is pretty clear and the example is clear. Unfortunately, those two don't agree.

 

[Li Shenron]

...plus the fact that the feat works very badly with direct-damage spells doesn't mean that it works just as badly with others.

Of course a cooperative fireball sucks, because you could just cast two fireballs and (evasion notwithstanding) you'd be always doing >= damage.

The feat is still weak, and obviously suited for NPCs better, but it's not nearly useless IMHO.

OTOH what always bugged me was the restriction of having to be all close to each other.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Ah, this thread.

I still stand by my position; multiple spells are cast. The feat makes no provision for choosing a participant "to decide all the effects, that need to be decided upon (target and stuff)."

Welcome to the boards, colinfit20! I'm afraid I don't understand your question. The cooperative spell adds to spell save DCs and caster level checks to penetrate spell resistance, but you also have to know what the caster level of the scroll is scribed at. And for spells that allow a save you need to know the DC as well.

But yeah, a scroll with a delayed cooperative spell would allow a single caster to use cooperative spell. But its a high price to pay for a small benefit, even if you use the more favorable multiple spell reading.

 

[Thanee]

Oops! Didn't really look at the date... just saw it in the list of new threads, heh.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I was wondering what if your spellcaster having gained this feat say for example was a multiclass character say a Sorceror/Wizard 4th/2nd level...

No, you cannot use Cooperative Spell with yourself.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

But yeah, a scroll with a delayed cooperative spell would allow a single caster to use cooperative spell. But its a high price to pay for a small benefit, even if you use the more favorable multiple spell reading.

I'm not sure that a delayed spell is cast after the delay... I think it comes into effect after the delay, which means that the user of the scroll cannot "merge" it with another cooperative spell.