-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
How does the Paladin stack up?
- Thread starter Lord Pendragon
- Start date
The Souljourner
First Post
Ahh, now I remember. I thought it was something like that.
That's a great feat! I think I was in the cleric mindset when I was looking at it last, and thus with my 8 charisma (damn dwarves), I wasn't exactly interested. But for a paladin, that is spectacular! I was just thinking that the major reason why Paladins are less effective in combat than Fighters is because they generally put their highest stat in charisma instead of strength.
For a limited time only, you can add your Charisma bonus to damage! Call now, these feats are going fast!
Heh... cool, I know one of the feats I'm taking!
Thanks for the info Fidgit.
-The Souljourner
That's a great feat! I think I was in the cleric mindset when I was looking at it last, and thus with my 8 charisma (damn dwarves), I wasn't exactly interested. But for a paladin, that is spectacular! I was just thinking that the major reason why Paladins are less effective in combat than Fighters is because they generally put their highest stat in charisma instead of strength.
For a limited time only, you can add your Charisma bonus to damage! Call now, these feats are going fast!
Heh... cool, I know one of the feats I'm taking!
Thanks for the info Fidgit.
-The Souljourner
Endur
First Post
Single-classed Paladins are awesome!
Single-classed Paladins are awesome!
For all of the reasons other people have said above.
Plus, your character is a hero! Everyone knows that you are a hero! And D&D was made for heroic characters.
If you can, buy scrolls of Holy Sword. Its an awesome spell (4th level Paladin spell) that makes a weapon +5 and does double damage against evil creatures. Perfect for those fights against the big evil boss.
Special Mounts are awesome in battle. Improved Evasion, high AC with barding, three attacks, eventually get SR, etc. A 5th level Paladin's heavy warhorse is usually better in battle than the 5th level Paladin. My Paladin doesn't have riding feats or many ranks in ride, so when we are outside, my Paladin sometimes fights on foot next to his horse. If you can persuade your GM, try and get a celestial mount or a winged mount using the rules from DOTF.
If your DM lets you use feats from the Builder books, Divine Might and Extra Smiting are great. Divine Might lets you use your turn attempts to give you more damage in battle (thank the Sage for making Divine Might a free action). Extra Smiting=at high level this is awesome; at epic level extra smiting = destroy demon lord.
I'm building a single classed Paladin right now and my feat plan is level 1: Mounted Combat, Power Attack (pre-req for Divine Might); level 3: Divine Might; level 6+: Extra Smiting.
And Epic Level Single-classed Paladins are unstoppable. Great Smiting is the only epic feat you'll ever need!
Tom
Single-classed Paladins are awesome!
For all of the reasons other people have said above.
Plus, your character is a hero! Everyone knows that you are a hero! And D&D was made for heroic characters.
If you can, buy scrolls of Holy Sword. Its an awesome spell (4th level Paladin spell) that makes a weapon +5 and does double damage against evil creatures. Perfect for those fights against the big evil boss.
Special Mounts are awesome in battle. Improved Evasion, high AC with barding, three attacks, eventually get SR, etc. A 5th level Paladin's heavy warhorse is usually better in battle than the 5th level Paladin. My Paladin doesn't have riding feats or many ranks in ride, so when we are outside, my Paladin sometimes fights on foot next to his horse. If you can persuade your GM, try and get a celestial mount or a winged mount using the rules from DOTF.
If your DM lets you use feats from the Builder books, Divine Might and Extra Smiting are great. Divine Might lets you use your turn attempts to give you more damage in battle (thank the Sage for making Divine Might a free action). Extra Smiting=at high level this is awesome; at epic level extra smiting = destroy demon lord.
I'm building a single classed Paladin right now and my feat plan is level 1: Mounted Combat, Power Attack (pre-req for Divine Might); level 3: Divine Might; level 6+: Extra Smiting.
And Epic Level Single-classed Paladins are unstoppable. Great Smiting is the only epic feat you'll ever need!
Tom
reapersaurus
Explorer
I'll take a different tack here.
I have played paladins and for roleplaying, they rock.
But sheer power?
They are the most over-rated class of all, power-wise IMO.
Everybody points to spells and smiting.
Sorry, smiting evil ONE TIME per day for only +level damage IF it hits is way too weak to even consider highly.
Spells REQUIRE the paladin to be single class, and other than Divine Sacrifice and Bless Weapon (the latter only in special cases), he gets almost nothing until Holy Sword.
And he casts as 1/2 his level (which i think is a terrible double-penalty), so the spells are even weaker.
Power analysis:
Smite is too weak, Turn Undead is worse than cleric, Detect Evil is kinda an annoying, mostly-roleplaying benefit, Remove Disease is a joke, Mount is nice but takes a lot of levels, and Divine Grace is very good.
Conclusion:
For heroic gaming (i.e. a powerful PC), I have switched to playing Cleric/Fighters. If anything, one level of paladin gets the best of the class features.
I have played paladins and for roleplaying, they rock.
But sheer power?
They are the most over-rated class of all, power-wise IMO.
Everybody points to spells and smiting.
Sorry, smiting evil ONE TIME per day for only +level damage IF it hits is way too weak to even consider highly.
Spells REQUIRE the paladin to be single class, and other than Divine Sacrifice and Bless Weapon (the latter only in special cases), he gets almost nothing until Holy Sword.
And he casts as 1/2 his level (which i think is a terrible double-penalty), so the spells are even weaker.
Power analysis:
Smite is too weak, Turn Undead is worse than cleric, Detect Evil is kinda an annoying, mostly-roleplaying benefit, Remove Disease is a joke, Mount is nice but takes a lot of levels, and Divine Grace is very good.
Conclusion:
For heroic gaming (i.e. a powerful PC), I have switched to playing Cleric/Fighters. If anything, one level of paladin gets the best of the class features.
Chun-tzu
First Post
BuddyRich said:
Yeah, Templar IS a good choice for Paladins, too, although it's more like a variation of a Paladin than staying a true Paladin. A Templar stops advancing in most Paladin abilities (turn undead, remove disease, spellcasting, special mount...), but instead gains a new set of (cool) special abilities. Also, Hospitalers can freely multiclass with Paladins, but Templars cannot, so it's one-way. I like the Templar's spell list, but prefer the Paladin's (especially since the Paladin also gets new spells from supplements, and that will never happen with Templar). On the other hand, the Templar's caster level is better.
Vocenoctum
First Post
Plane Sailing said:
A player in the game I DM presented the spell like that, but I don't read it that way.
"The weapon negates the damage reduction of evil creatures and is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."
Some read it as "The weapon negates the damage reduction of evil creatures. The weapon is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."
I read it as "The weapon negates the damage reduction of of evil creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus. The weapon is capable of striking evil incorporeal creatures as if it had a +1 enchantment bonus."
Ah well.
The paladin only starts to get the good spells at 16th level and remember he only has half caster level progression so all those 1 rd/lvl spells have very short durations.
For every ability the paladin has there is a prestige class that does it better but you lose advancement in the other abilites. Windrider gets spells and (much) better mount but no turning or smite enhancement. Templar gets feats, DR, more smites, different spells but gives up turning. Sacred Exorcist gets lots and lots of turning and keeps spells but loses smiting and mount advancement. Divine champion get lays on hands, feats and smites but loses spell progression and turning.
I think that its worth taking a prestige class because the little bit of everything a paladin gets doesn't stack up in my opinion. Take your aura of courage and immunity to disease, divine grace and your smite and move on to something else.
For every ability the paladin has there is a prestige class that does it better but you lose advancement in the other abilites. Windrider gets spells and (much) better mount but no turning or smite enhancement. Templar gets feats, DR, more smites, different spells but gives up turning. Sacred Exorcist gets lots and lots of turning and keeps spells but loses smiting and mount advancement. Divine champion get lays on hands, feats and smites but loses spell progression and turning.
I think that its worth taking a prestige class because the little bit of everything a paladin gets doesn't stack up in my opinion. Take your aura of courage and immunity to disease, divine grace and your smite and move on to something else.
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Well, it seems that opinions are mixed. To be expected, I suppose. Just for the record, I fully agree that a paladin has great RPing potential. I already have a personality and background in mind for one. But I'm honest enough with myself to admit that I wouldn't have fun constantly playing second- or third-fiddle in combat. I want a PC that is both fun to role-play, and fun to run through combat.
Maybe I could convince the DM to just *tweak* the class only a little. Perhaps trading in all those extra Remove Disease charges for CHA bonus per day smiting. I can wait for a mount, if the mount is survivable at higher levels once it arrives...
Lots of ideas here. Lots to think about.
Maybe I could convince the DM to just *tweak* the class only a little. Perhaps trading in all those extra Remove Disease charges for CHA bonus per day smiting. I can wait for a mount, if the mount is survivable at higher levels once it arrives...
Lots of ideas here. Lots to think about.
Gunslinger
First Post
A Paladin iwith high charisma is by the far the best class if you happen to be in the Abyss. The Paladin in our party with a charisma of 24 could lay on hands for over 80 points per day, while the clerics only got back 0-2 level spells. And in addition everything down there is evil. You can't go wrong with a smite attempt.
Re
Currently, I am playing a single class lvl 11 Paladin in a campaign. I was skeptical of their abilities compared to a fighter. Weapon specialization is a nice feat to give up. I usually multi-class Paladin/Fighter just to obtain weapon specialization.
I have found that the single class Paladin really doesn't need weapon specialization. Most of their abilities are actually very useful. The only two that are situation specific are Remove Disease and your Holy Mount. All of your other abilities usually apply at least a few times, especially if you pick up divine might or one of the other of DOTF turning feats.
If your DM allows you to have an stronger mount such as a Dire Lion or Griffon, then you are really sitting pretty. You can actually bring them into the dungeon to help you fight unless the dungeon is too small. If you take the Leadership feat, you can actually obtain a small dragon as a mount.
The Paladin spell list is pretty awsome as well. Bless Weapon, Divine Sacrifice, Heal Mount (Full Heal for mount), and Holy Sword are some great spells that allow you to seriously compete with the fighter in the battle against evil.
If you decide to play a single class Paladin, you will be pleasantly surprised at how well you do in battle. I only hope you have the Defenders of the Faith book to fully take advantage of the Paladin class. The PHB Paladin is still very good, but the Defenders of the Faith book adds tremendous value to the class.
Currently, I am playing a single class lvl 11 Paladin in a campaign. I was skeptical of their abilities compared to a fighter. Weapon specialization is a nice feat to give up. I usually multi-class Paladin/Fighter just to obtain weapon specialization.
I have found that the single class Paladin really doesn't need weapon specialization. Most of their abilities are actually very useful. The only two that are situation specific are Remove Disease and your Holy Mount. All of your other abilities usually apply at least a few times, especially if you pick up divine might or one of the other of DOTF turning feats.
If your DM allows you to have an stronger mount such as a Dire Lion or Griffon, then you are really sitting pretty. You can actually bring them into the dungeon to help you fight unless the dungeon is too small. If you take the Leadership feat, you can actually obtain a small dragon as a mount.
The Paladin spell list is pretty awsome as well. Bless Weapon, Divine Sacrifice, Heal Mount (Full Heal for mount), and Holy Sword are some great spells that allow you to seriously compete with the fighter in the battle against evil.
If you decide to play a single class Paladin, you will be pleasantly surprised at how well you do in battle. I only hope you have the Defenders of the Faith book to fully take advantage of the Paladin class. The PHB Paladin is still very good, but the Defenders of the Faith book adds tremendous value to the class.
