How Does "The Rules Aren't Physics" Fix Anything?

[danzig138]

And when you divest of yourself of that need, you will no longer have such problems.

Zen master you ain't. But at least now I've figured out how you got such a high post count.

 

[hong]

Zen master you ain't.

Yes, that's what they all say.

But at least now I've figured out how you got such a high post count.

It would be lower, but, you know, NOONE LISTENS TO ME

 

[Lanefan]

If this is to be a *roleplaying* game, then there needs to be enough believability and consistency in the game world to allow me (as player) to play my role (as character), at least somewhat secure in the knowledge that something that worked in x-y-z manner once will do so again in the same situation. In other words, the "fluff" that is the world my character interacts with needs to be supported by the "crunch" of the rules that govern how the game works...the two should be seamless. How hard is that?

Example: FLUFF: As the ship sails off despite our party's best attempts to stop it, my fighter wearily drops his sword and it falls to the ground. Then, in a fit of frustration he rips off his helmet and vainly throws it at the fast-retreating vessel; it sails out over the harbour in a graceful arc before splashing into the water and slowly sinking.
CRUNCH: A sentence in the DMG "Assume gravity works much the same in the game world as it does on Earth."
Simple. Seamless. No headaches.

Whether that believability and consistency comes from the rules (where it should) or the DM (where it usually does) really doesn't matter very much, as long as it is present.

As for PCs and NPCs being different, I really disagree with the apparent 4e philosophy where PCs are heroes before they start. I'd far rather have every adventurer come from a non-adventurer's background - be it noble, common, or whatever - and by their deeds *become* heroes. The same rules apply. And yes, commoners should gain ExP if they survive a tornado...but they'd need to survive an awful lot of 'em to start gaining levels.

In other words, 4e will be like the mid-series movie that needs a prequel or two to explain how things got to the start point.

Playability vs. realism: if realism can be preserved without affecting playability too adversely, then preserve the realism. How hard is that? (and yes, everyone will have different ideas on where the boundary of "too adversely" lies; so be it...)

Lanefan

 

[AZRogue]

PCs may be assumed to be "heroes" but they aren't much more powerful than anyone else. They ARE more powerful than their 3E counterparts, but not when measured against the average 1st level NPC or Monster. So they have some abilities to make them more "hardy" than others, but they clearly aren't superheroes.

Also, a PC doesn't have an "epic destiny" at first level. He has to get up there first. The only real "specialness" he has is his survivability, which isn't even all that hot as a pair of 1st level human guards will take him out like a punk.

PCs can only be considered to be heroes-from-the-start if you compare them to their 3E versions, which isn't a good comparison, since they'll be living in a world populated by other 4E creations.

 

[essenbee]

CRUNCH: A sentence in the DMG "Assume gravity works much the same in the game world as it does on Earth."
Simple. Seamless. No headaches.

You really need to have that explicitly stated in the DMG?

 

[Lanefan]

PCs can only be considered to be heroes-from-the-start if you compare them to their 3E versions, which isn't a good comparison, since they'll be living in a world populated by other 4E creations.

I'm comparing them to their 1e versions.

Lanefan

 

[Lanefan]

You really need to have that explicitly stated in the DMG?

Yes, as it's exactly the sort of thing that discussions like this revolve around: do the rules as written support believability. Even something as simple as that one statement gets the point across that things are intended to be believable, and that the game world *does* have internal physics and the DM had better keep this in mind. (what I'd really like to see in the DMG is some brief discussion of the physics of magic, it'd save a lot of arguments; but I'm not holding my breath) Even more useful would be some discussion in the DMG on how to usefully alter fundamental physics and keep things consistent/believable...for example, half-strength gravity, planets orbiting each other at real-world impossibly close range, removal of magnetic forces, etc.

Lanefan

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

What I don't understand is how the rules are the physics of the world rather than the physics of the player controlling the character in the world.

I've always thought of the rules as an interface system rather than an operating system.

Treating it otherwise always breaks verisimilitude for me because it inevitably leads to Red Mage from 8-bit theater.

 

[essenbee]

Yes, as it's exactly the sort of thing that discussions like this revolve around: do the rules as written support believability. Even something as simple as that one statement gets the point across that things are intended to be believable, and that the game world *does* have internal physics and the DM had better keep this in mind. (what I'd really like to see in the DMG is some brief discussion of the physics of magic, it'd save a lot of arguments; but I'm not holding my breath) Even more useful would be some discussion in the DMG on how to usefully alter fundamental physics and keep things consistent/believable...for example, half-strength gravity, planets orbiting each other at real-world impossibly close range, removal of magnetic forces, etc.

Lanefan

Personally I'd be horrified if such things filled out the pages of the new DMG, but thats just me I guess.

 

[hong]

Yes, as it's exactly the sort of thing that discussions like this revolve around: do the rules as written support believability. Even something as simple as that one statement gets the point across that things are intended to be believable, and that the game world *does* have internal physics and the DM had better keep this in mind.

Har har. "The game world doesn't require fires to use oxygen; if it did, it would have said so just like the rule for gravity!"