How ENWorld has tainted my love of D&D

[Mark CMG]

Great...now I have "Tainted Love" stuck in my head.

Better than having it stuck elsewhere.


Sometimes I attempt, when trying out new systems or, at least, old systems that are new to me, to avoid knowing too much about the game mechanics but there is a lot of crossover in RPGs. Also, sometimes the point of a new system is steeped in the mechanics and thus impossible to experience without such knowledge, potentially preventing immersion as a side effect. Once you realize the above OP affliction is your lot, it may be too late to change. You cannot unring a bell.

 

[Nifft]

I feel like everytime I read these threads, I get to see the man-behind-the-curtain a little too well. Personally, I'd rather just believe that OZ is great and powerful.

(...) Anyone else have this experience?

Nope. I'm the sort who appreciates things more when I have a deeper understanding of how and why they work.

Same deal with art: knowing the cultural context of a work increases my appreciation.

Ignorance isn't my bliss.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Bulls**t. You're telling me that you can read all of the min/maxing information here and it doesn't, in any way, affect your play of the game? Even if you don't realize it, you are being affected. Besides, it's all fantasy.

Not only that, but you come off as a condescending jerk.

Unless you're being sarcastic.

I can't speak for anyone else, but what I've read hasn't affected me in any way because of my design philosophy: I use the rules & mechanics to model the PC concept. For me, "optimization" is about how closely I can marry up the ideal of the PC floating in my head with something on the character sheet.

On occasion, that has meant delving into some arcane corners of the game, such as when I was trying to maximize the attacks per round for a shortsword-wielding 2Ed drow Ftr/MU/Th- waaaaaaaay back in the mid-1980s- but that obviously predates charop boards (which I don't visit anyway).

But unless the rules help me model my concept, I ignore them. I mean, in 33 years in the game, I've yet to play an arcanist- and most of my PCs can cast arcane spells- whose spell list resembled anything "optimal": no MM, Sleep, or any of the "broken" spells find their way onto those PC's spell-lists.

 

[OnlineDM]

To the main question, I think that being plugged into the meta-discussion of a game does remove some of the joy of discovery (whether that's a role playing game or even something like Magic the Gathering, which I used to play). If you independently discover a really cool power or a creative way to build a character, that's thrilling! If you read about dozens of other people who've done it and then do it yourself, that's less exciting.

To the side comment about not wanting to play a "gimped" character, my position is that the campaign is fun as long as everyone in the party is of a similar power level. If everyone is playing characters that are tied to flavor but that aren't mechanically very powerful, that's fine (assuming the DM adjusts the challenge level appropriately) - even preferable, to my taste. If only ONE player has a "sub-optimal" character, that player isn't going to have much fun. It's just about as bad if only one player has a super min-maxed character.

 

[nightwyrm]

Some people likes a car for the way it looks and the way it speed down the street when they step on the gas. Others enjoy watching the engine work, the intricate dance of the valves and the way it converts chemical energy into motion. Does knowing how an internal combustion works necessarily reduce the pleasure of somebody who's driving a Ferrari?

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Richards]

Better than having it stuck elsewhere.

Ouch! An excellent, uh, point I hadn't considered.

Johnathan

 

[Henry]

Myself, I yearn for a time when everyone didn't have a smartphone with a camera in it, and we as a culture didn't put the most minute details of our lives both exciting and mundane on display for everyone to see - but I blame the internet for both the phenomena the OP is talking about, and mine. Gotta take the good with the bad.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Bulls**t. You're telling me that you can read all of the min/maxing information here and it doesn't, in any way, affect your play of the game? Even if you don't realize it, you are being affected. Besides, it's all fantasy.

Not only that, but you come off as a condescending jerk.

Unless you're being sarcastic.

On my. I think I accidentally read some of that stuff!!

ZOMG!!! I AM BEING AFFECTED!!!

None of this stuff is new. Back the days before them thar intarwebs became popular all kinds of rules variants and such were discussed at a much slower pace in Dragon. Players would show up at games "tainted" with knowledge of a new ninja class or (don't look!!) the anti-paladin.

The point here is that new material, and discussion of game material in general goes back quite a bit. The same thing holds true now as it did then- only what you as players want has to be a part of your game. If rules minutae is bothersome then play something that uses light rules and ignore the rest.

It is time we stopped blaming the speed of communication for the content of that communication.

 

[Diamond Cross]

Well, even before I knew of the internet I gamed with min/maxers who often derided me for not doing so. For me, min/maxing is just not important, it's the character concept that I find intriguing.

However, I did start becoming a power gamer for a while because the min/maxers were often trying to take advantage of my character or bully the character in some way and putiing him down in some way because I just didn't want to be like them and for them it was all about being the biggest baddest toug guy around.

Now I keep min/maxing to the minimum. For example, if I want to play a fighter I'll often put the highest score into a stat and if I want him to be a good melee guy I'll get the usual feat combination of power attack/cleave/great cleave and of course focus (weapon) and weapon specialization. Or of course if I want him to be good at bows I'll take the usual bow feats with it.

And sometimes I'll take a different route such as if say I want a swashbuckler type I'll take the feat of Weapon Finesse and put the highest score into Dexterity.

That's what I mean by a minimum of min/maxing. But in this case, it's more about character concept and using my imagination to get out of situations than min/maxing.

Because I hate being a copy of other people's character. I want to play my character in my own way.

 

[blargney the second]

Nope. I'm the sort who appreciates things more when I have a deeper understanding of how and why they work.

Same deal with art: knowing the cultural context of a work increases my appreciation.

Ignorance isn't my bliss.

Cheers, -- N

If I could posrep you, I would.

An RPG is like a theatrical production: there are mechanical parts and jobs that need to be there in order for everybody to enjoy the experience. The better they work the less obtrusive they are, but it still requires somebody who really knows their stuff to make it happen that way.

The production manager or DM puts all those pieces together. They more they know about the entire process, the better the experience can be for the actors and audience. Heck, an actor or audience member who knows about the mechanics can appreciate a good scene change even more.

Having the skill to frame a given rule in order to highlight its elegance and minimize its faults can only make your game better.
-blarg