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D&D General How far from the source can we stray?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
What do you think?

I think you haven't fully asked the question.

To wit - what are you trying to achieve? What are your goals? "How far can we stray... and become the leading setting for D&D?" is a different question than, "How far can we stray... and have a successful $30K Kickstarter?" And that's not the same as, "How far can we stray... and have people on EN World interested in it?" Or, "... and still feel like D&D to you?"

So, I'd say you need to decide what the goal is ("system agnostic setting" is the thing you are using to reach the goal, it is not the goal itself), and then maybe we can answer whether you hit it or not.
 
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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Most D&D games, and their derivatives, hew closely to Tolkien's ideas and themes (many of which predate Tolkien, but his work is commonly viewed as a starting point for their appearance in fantasy). The standard setup of humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings populate nearly every fantasy world created since, with some notable outliers. A few attempts have been made to break free of this paradigm; Dark Sun radically reinvented the wheel, and Talislanta tried to abandon it completely.

But Dark Sun still had the classic races, morphed into a new iteration, and Talislanta, for all its posturing, still has like 17 character types that anyone would easily identify as an "elf" at a glance. And while many dozens of additional character options, from demon-descended to insectoid to avian have proliferated over the years, home base still seems to be the Tolkien norms.

I'm developing a fantasy setting, and I'm drawing heavily from weird fiction for it - mostly a mixture of C.L. Moore, Robert E Howard, and China Miéville, blended with 1001 Nights and with a dash of Jules Verne for good measure, and I'm wrestling a bit with character options. My goal is a system-agnostic world that nonetheless carries its own ruleset, and obviously I'd like it to be as broadly accessible as possible. I have ideas for plant creatures and mineral creatures and such for player character options, but I worry that prioritizing such non-standard folk will turn off many people - particularly the OSR crowd, despite the fact that my overall approach draws very heavily from OSR games.

What do you think? Are humans sufficient as a baseline character option, surrounded by more off-kilter options, or do you prefer to keep your games within the sphere of Tolkien's shadow? The ongoing popularity of the Forgotten Realms certainly suggests the latter, but my own preferences run much more strongly toward the former.
I’d say even humans are optional, though if you ditch them you need to include, IMO, 2 of; elves, dwarfs, and Halflings.
This gets us into the territory of final fantasy and legend of Zelda (Link and other Hylians are clearly elves or Halflings), etc
 

Voadam

Legend
I’d say even humans are optional, though if you ditch them you need to include, IMO, 2 of; elves, dwarfs, and Halflings.
This gets us into the territory of final fantasy and legend of Zelda (Link and other Hylians are clearly elves or Halflings), etc

I'd disagree on needing demihumans. Redwall is a fine no human or demi-human model. See Return of the Woodland Warriors (an OSR example), Anthro-Adventures (a 5e setting with a Pathfinder counterpart), and Mouse Guard RPG (Non-D&D RPG).
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I'd disagree on needing demihumans. Redwall is a fine no human or demi-human model. See Return of the Woodland Warriors (an OSR example), Anthro-Adventures (a 5e setting with a Pathfinder counterpart), and Mouse Guard RPG (Non-D&D RPG).
That’s fair. Though, each of those, IIRC, have a “regular folk” race, or only one playable race. Still, great point.

I’ll revise my statement that you need a race that represents the “straight man”, the simplest option, the “basic” regular folks.
 






Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I think you haven't fully asked the question.

To wit - what are you trying to achieve? What are your goals? "How far can we stray... and become the leading setting for D&D?" is a different question than, "How far can we stray... and have a successful $30K Kickstarter?" And that's not the same as, "How far can we stray... and have people on EN World interested in it?" Or, "... and still feel like D&D to you?"

So, I'd say you need to decide what the goal is ("system agnostic setting" is the thing you are using to reach the goal, it is not the goal itself), and then maybe we can answer whether you hit it or not.
A fair point.

While it would be nice to become the leading setting for D&D, at least financially, I'm confident that isn't in the cards no matter what I do.

So my goal is to create a setting that interests people enough to buy into it. I've given only bare bones here, mostly because the majority of my ideas are still in development, but I (and my existing group) really like what I've done. Now, I know that doesn't count for a lot, mass-market wise, but I have what I think is a solid development plan for everything.

I guess we'll see!
 

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