D&D General How far from the source can we stray?

[Shiroiken]

IMO trying to mix the streams is where things get wonky. The concept of Dark Sun based on using unrecognizable races by twisting the existing ones. If you have ideas on using odd races, you're better off just using those instead of trying to merge existing tropes in with it.

 

[Ace]

My preference is much the same!

I am thinking of presenting the idea as "most characters are human," with the non-human mostly confined to the monster section. But inevitably people like to play non-human, so providing an option for "monster" PCs seems a decent idea.

I do much the same.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

If you want mostly human centric then have your other species be completely alien.
With Tolkien,
Hobbits were short folk and elves were idealized humans while orcs were corrupted elves. They are all kind of related.
Having mineral and plant species and full animal species might be a nice change. I just fear that people wouldn’t play them because it’s difficult to play something that is totally alien. But maybe that’s part of the goal?

 

[Ath'kethin]

If you want mostly human centric then have your other species be completely alien.
With Tolkien,
Hobbits were short folk and elves were idealized humans while orcs were corrupted elves. They are all kind of related.
Having mineral and plant species and full animal species might be a nice change. I just fear that people wouldn’t play them because it’s difficult to play something that is totally alien. But maybe that’s part of the goa

Not so much part of the goal as part of my concern. I'm reminded of a conversation I had months ago with someone, in which I was griping about the physical redesign Thri-Kreen underwent in the WotC era. For the uninitiated: under TSR, Thri-Kreen were distinctly insectoid and ahuman, with long bodies, huge thoraxes, and art that represented them as very mantis-like (hence their nickname, mantis warriors).

In WotC publications, Thri-Kreen stand upright and are smaller, making them distinctly more human-like.

The first D&D character I ever played was a thri-kreen, and I loved leaning into their strangeness. But the response of the person with whom I was discussing the situation was "I don't want to play a giant bug."

Fair enough, but I wonder if that kind of sentiment a) led to the redesign of the thri-kreen - something I think is very likely given WotC's very research-based approach to game design - and b) is common enough to curtail similarly unusual PC options.

Ultimately, I feel that as long as a setting has a human default, people will find characters to play. And I hope that the non-human options I develop will be compelling enough on their own. But my hunch is that the sentiment expressed in my conversation months ago is ingrained enough to spook most setting designers away from creating anything farther away than the almost-human Tolkien archetypes.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Not so much part of the goal as part of my concern. I'm reminded of a conversation I had months ago with someone, in which I was griping about the physical redesign Thri-Kreen underwent in the WotC era. For the uninitiated: under TSR, Thri-Kreen were distinctly insectoid and ahuman, with long bodies, huge thoraxes, and art that represented them as very mantis-like (hence their nickname, mantis warriors).
View attachment 132385
In WotC publications, Thri-Kreen stand upright and are smaller, making them distinctly more human-like.
View attachment 132386
The first D&D character I ever played was a thri-kreen, and I loved leaning into their strangeness. But the response of the person with whom I was discussing the situation was "I don't want to play a giant bug."

Fair enough, but I wonder if that kind of sentiment a) led to the redesign of the thri-kreen - something I think is very likely given WotC's very research-based approach to game design - and b) is common enough to curtail similarly unusual PC options.

Ultimately, I feel that as long as a setting has a human default, people will find characters to play. And I hope that the non-human options I develop will be compelling enough on their own. But my hunch is that the sentiment expressed in my conversation months ago is ingrained enough to spook most setting designers away from creating anything farther away than the almost-human Tolkien archetypes.

ah, the anthro race problem, thing based directly on animals get stuck with the stereotypes of said animals, merge four very different things together and it stops being a problem as it becomes a new concept.

 

[Ath'kethin]

IMO trying to mix the streams is where things get wonky. The concept of Dark Sun based on using unrecognizable races by twisting the existing ones. If you have ideas on using odd races, you're better off just using those instead of trying to merge existing tropes in with it.

I don't really want to provide new takes on old concepts; I'd like to abandon them altogether. The difficulty with doing that, of course, is maintaining an appeal to people who're accustomed to the Tolkien approaches or finding enough people interested in abandoning those archetypes.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I don't really want to provide new takes on old concepts; I'd like to abandon them altogether. The difficulty with doing that, of course, is maintaining an appeal to people who're accustomed to the Tolkien approaches or finding enough people interested in abandoning those archetypes.

it really depends if you can make a good idea with sufficient blk to make people view it as new as most ideas have been down but not necessarily well.

 

[NaturalZero]

People loved Finding Nemo. You don't need humans at all to tell a human story.

You certainly don't need humans with pointed ears or humans with beards.

 

[Ath'kethin]

it really depends if you can make a good idea with sufficient blk to make people view it as new as most ideas have been down but not necessarily well.

True dat. And almost more challenging is facing up against situations where they WERE done well. Better minds than mine have explored similar concepts before, to varying degrees of success; it's tough to stand on their shoulders without just aping their takes.

 

[Mind of tempest]

True dat. And almost more challenging is facing up against situations where they WERE done well. Better minds than mine have explored similar concepts before, to varying degrees of success; it's tough to stand on their shoulders without just aping their takes.

it is important to remember that you do not stand on the shoulders of giants merely a very large human leader. like the ones in those Indian festivels.