fanboy2000
Adventurer
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How frequent are dragon encounters in your game?
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(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Rarely.
I think I fought a dragon once in 2e, and in 3.x dragons were wimps.
Yes, you read that right. Wimps. They weren't designed as solos and didn't have the AC needed to take on a whole party. (They did have high saves and hp, of course.) Also, other than their breath weapon (which you could deal with using one spell*) their damage options were actually pretty lame.
They're also rather difficult to put into an adventure. In my case, it's worse, as I don't like the way they're presented in many adventures anyway. (I like them being loners. Not just solos, but actual loners. The only "minions" (non-game term) that are acceptable are its hatchlings and the only accept ally is its mate.)
The Hobbit actually put the dragon in a good place. The dragon wasn't the villain, it was simply an obstacle to remove in order to get to the treasure. The way I run games though, it's not treasure-hunting, so PCs are more likely to run away if they think they're going to encounter a dragon.
*Assumptions, of course: No surprise, it's a chromatic dragon with no alternate breath weapon, and of course the dragon's pathetic caster level to CR ratio meant it had next to no chance of successfully dispelling abjurations.
I think I fought a dragon once in 2e, and in 3.x dragons were wimps.
Yes, you read that right. Wimps. They weren't designed as solos and didn't have the AC needed to take on a whole party. (They did have high saves and hp, of course.) Also, other than their breath weapon (which you could deal with using one spell*) their damage options were actually pretty lame.
They're also rather difficult to put into an adventure. In my case, it's worse, as I don't like the way they're presented in many adventures anyway. (I like them being loners. Not just solos, but actual loners. The only "minions" (non-game term) that are acceptable are its hatchlings and the only accept ally is its mate.)
The Hobbit actually put the dragon in a good place. The dragon wasn't the villain, it was simply an obstacle to remove in order to get to the treasure. The way I run games though, it's not treasure-hunting, so PCs are more likely to run away if they think they're going to encounter a dragon.
*Assumptions, of course: No surprise, it's a chromatic dragon with no alternate breath weapon, and of course the dragon's pathetic caster level to CR ratio meant it had next to no chance of successfully dispelling abjurations.
HelloChristian
First Post
we play 3.5. After running two or three 3.5 campaigns, I am finally inflicting a dragon on the party next week. It will be a young dragon and I look forward to the fight.
It's interesting how so many gamers don't focus on dragons. Dungeons yes, but not the other side of the ampersand.
It's interesting how so many gamers don't focus on dragons. Dungeons yes, but not the other side of the ampersand.
Funny thing. I don't use many dungeons either. I think that the last time I used an actual dungeon was prior to 3e.
Fallen Seraph
First Post
Yeah, same I don't use many dungeons either, or dragons (voted rarely). I prefer cities and humanoid opponents mostly.
mhacdebhandia
Explorer
I don't really find dragons that interesting as combat opponents. Sure, they're interestingly-designed solos in Fourth Edition, and that's cool . . . but they just don't appeal to me, so I have a hard time finding a place for them in my games.
That said, in the right setting where dragons are more interesting than their standard D&D presentation as, to put it simply, locally powerful villains, I can use them. Eberron, for instance, has a secret society of dragons who are pursuing the fulfilment of a prophecy on the grandest scale imaginable, and who often disguise themselves as normal people and manipulate heroes and villains to that end.
That said, in the right setting where dragons are more interesting than their standard D&D presentation as, to put it simply, locally powerful villains, I can use them. Eberron, for instance, has a secret society of dragons who are pursuing the fulfilment of a prophecy on the grandest scale imaginable, and who often disguise themselves as normal people and manipulate heroes and villains to that end.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
I always felt dragons were portrayed that way. Dragon Mountain (2e adventure, dragon had many minions and used polymorph to spy on the PCs), many 3.x adventures and the 4e "mini-adventure" gave me that impression. (The latter probably to get the PCs low on healing surges before facing the big monster.)
Hawke
Explorer
I've never run one but I'm a relatively new DM (only a few years). The big issue for me was my first setting I DM'd was Dark Sun and so many iconics including dragons weren't really with the theme of the setting.
I'm trying to set one up in my homebrew campaign now for 5th level players... I'm torn between wanting Dragons to be ultrapowerful NPCs that are fearful / movers in the macro behind-the-scenes plot and have them fight one. In the end they need to get an item from him, and I think that I'll run it as a skill challenge with perhaps some tasks from the dragon in exchange rather than a straight up fight. Maybe start the fight and have an initial skill challenge giving them some checks to try and convince the dragon to try and stop killing them... hm!
I'm trying to set one up in my homebrew campaign now for 5th level players... I'm torn between wanting Dragons to be ultrapowerful NPCs that are fearful / movers in the macro behind-the-scenes plot and have them fight one. In the end they need to get an item from him, and I think that I'll run it as a skill challenge with perhaps some tasks from the dragon in exchange rather than a straight up fight. Maybe start the fight and have an initial skill challenge giving them some checks to try and convince the dragon to try and stop killing them... hm!
Every time I have (rarely) placed a Dragon in any of my games in 1st, 2nd or 3rd Ed, the poor thing has been butchered (due to Min/Maxing PCs and/or my ineptness at strategy for the creature). I felt that I was "letting the side down" when the Dragon bought the farm so easily, so I stopped using them. My new 4th Edition group has just entered the DMG introductory scenarios entrance hall - I havent much experience of running 4th Ed combats as yet but the Dragon in that adventure looks awful tough for a new batch of 1st Level adventurers.
Hawke
Explorer
Oh shoot, I guess I lied! I did run that adventure. My players ended up taking out the dragon, but they shouldn't've. I felt things were going south too quickly so I did some dumber tactics than I should have. The players quickly used second winds and a few careful shots ended up going the other way.
I believe that encounter is designed with a likely TPK in mind - a sort of intro mini-adventure that lets you experience some of each elements including the death & dying rules =)
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