Digital Archon
First Post
By which i mean the three adventures, Races of Eberron and the Sharn thing?
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How good are the various supplements to Eberron?
- Thread starter Digital Archon
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mhacdebhandia
Explorer
Sharn: City of Towers is dry but a good resource in terms of numbers and geography, even if the maps are a little dodgy.
Races of Eberron is really good, but I doubt that everyone will agree with its "take" on the races.
Races of Eberron is really good, but I doubt that everyone will agree with its "take" on the races.
Glyfair
Explorer
The three adventures are debatable. I've only played in the first and am in the middle of the second. I've heard a lot of complaints that the second is very railroadish.
Sharn is great. The only complaint is that there isn't a detailed map of the city. Honestly, I wouldn't want the mess that would likely result if someone tried to detail the city in 3D more than it was. A couple of areas might have been nice, though.
Races of Eberron has strong feelings on both sides. Most complaints deal with the cover, so you can see where the importance of some players lies.
Others think some areas of RoE doesn't match up with Keith's takes on Eberron in his "Ask Keith Baker" thread and various Dragonshards articles. Keith has made it clear, though, that he's not the final word on Eberron. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his own opinion, though.
I think it's excellent. If you see contradictions between the mentioned sources and the book, choose which one you prefer. I don't see it as a major issue.
Sharn is great. The only complaint is that there isn't a detailed map of the city. Honestly, I wouldn't want the mess that would likely result if someone tried to detail the city in 3D more than it was. A couple of areas might have been nice, though.
Races of Eberron has strong feelings on both sides. Most complaints deal with the cover, so you can see where the importance of some players lies.
Others think some areas of RoE doesn't match up with Keith's takes on Eberron in his "Ask Keith Baker" thread and various Dragonshards articles. Keith has made it clear, though, that he's not the final word on Eberron. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his own opinion, though.
I think it's excellent. If you see contradictions between the mentioned sources and the book, choose which one you prefer. I don't see it as a major issue.
Glyfair said:
The second worked very well for me - there are basically four rules to running this adventure. (Spoiler notes below)
Rule #1: Remind the PCs they don't want to restart the war by disobeying the authorities.
Rule #2: If the PCs catch Lukan before the end of the adventure, let them!
Rule #3: If the PCs catch Lukan before the end of the adventure, they are really, really good. My PCs couldn't get near him. All of his escapes are logical and work. NPCs are allowed to be intelligent!
Rule #4: Don't give away information for free. The PCs aren't meant to know Lukan is a vampire until the second encounter. Pretty much, the next time they see him after that will be just before the finale.
Rule #2: If the PCs catch Lukan before the end of the adventure, let them!
Rule #3: If the PCs catch Lukan before the end of the adventure, they are really, really good. My PCs couldn't get near him. All of his escapes are logical and work. NPCs are allowed to be intelligent!
Rule #4: Don't give away information for free. The PCs aren't meant to know Lukan is a vampire until the second encounter. Pretty much, the next time they see him after that will be just before the finale.
I've about one session to run before I finish the entire series - there's some very nice adventures there.
Cheers!
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
I haven't run the adventures, but I have both Sharn: City of Towers and Races of Eberron.
Sharn is, as others have said above, not the most exciting read, nor does it have a terribly detailed map of the city. I'm fine with the lack of map, since it gives me a bit of stretching room. And the detail in the city's description and all the plot hooks is truly inspiring; it's entirely possible to run a game from 1st to 20th level and never leave city limits (maybe not wise, but possible). It's also perfectly useful even not in Sharn: the statistics for guards, for example, have been used by me elsewhere.
I'm not quite as fond of RoE as I am of Sharn, but it's a very solid book, if there are a few feat imbalances (the one that gives longtooth shifters the 3.5 wounding quality, for example). The changeling chapter stands out in my mind as one of the book's best bits, laden with plot hooks and surprisingly open with possibly taboo material as changeling gender and pregnancies. The rest of it, though, has lots of useful material, including more rumors of the Lord of Blades identity than you could ever concievably use in a single campaign.
Demiurge out.
Sharn is, as others have said above, not the most exciting read, nor does it have a terribly detailed map of the city. I'm fine with the lack of map, since it gives me a bit of stretching room. And the detail in the city's description and all the plot hooks is truly inspiring; it's entirely possible to run a game from 1st to 20th level and never leave city limits (maybe not wise, but possible). It's also perfectly useful even not in Sharn: the statistics for guards, for example, have been used by me elsewhere.
I'm not quite as fond of RoE as I am of Sharn, but it's a very solid book, if there are a few feat imbalances (the one that gives longtooth shifters the 3.5 wounding quality, for example). The changeling chapter stands out in my mind as one of the book's best bits, laden with plot hooks and surprisingly open with possibly taboo material as changeling gender and pregnancies. The rest of it, though, has lots of useful material, including more rumors of the Lord of Blades identity than you could ever concievably use in a single campaign.
Demiurge out.
Graf
Explorer
I'm running an Eberron game right now. I have very limited time and resources. I find that with the "Core" Eberron book, Sharn and some Dungeons the game basically runs itself (with an hour or two of prep time).
Sharn (4 out of 5)
There was a point where I got a bit tired of reading it but once you've skimmed through it once with paper and pen nearby you can really use it. They don't spend more than they need to on different areas and while some parts of the city are boring they make those areas as short as necessary. So I wouldn't really say "dry".
The descriptions for every neighborhood are really useful; I usually read through each neighborhood the PCs spend any time in. Fast, quick, well-flavored. There is enough detail for DMs to give you some grounding if the PCs wander off the beaten track into random neighborhood without bogging you down.
Generally I think they do a great job of putting in story hooks, and labeling them well. There is a lot more than could ever fit into a single game and just about everything is very "core" Eberron. I.e. extrapolations and additional details of ideas/image from the main book.
The only real crippling flaws are the maps (which are fine for mapping out PCs activities and improvising) are so undetailed as to be really good only for making vague statements. And there is no index (but Keith Baker has one on his website, which you will need to print out and keep a copy of unless you run a very linear game or have a photographic memory).
Races (4 out of 5)
Last night I picked up again in between the WoW servers going down and when I crashed. I am very pleased with Races. It could do more and I've had more than a few debates about that with players. But it tackles the right sorts of issues, gives about the right amount of time, and provides enough crunch for players without going overboard.
The discussions of the Warforged and the Changlings are the best. They talk quite a bit about the deep sorts of mental attitudes that pervade the two races with lots of concrete examples. As a player its easy to understand how your race thinks about itself, what your expectations are of other races, social groupings, ideological factions, etc. Having mindset spun pretty efficiently into concrete examples of behavior really helps ideas flow and gives people an interesting spectrum on which to place characters (both of the PC and NPC variety).
I re-read the shifter section as well and it's, unfortunately, weak. It's not terrible, but unlike the other two mentioned above, the shifter section kind of repeats the same blah fluff about "restraining the inner beast" without much game-useful content. There are a few good sparks (the discussion on the importance of family) but the secton should have been made smaller or else some new ideas should have been added. Compared with a very strong Warforged section its almost a waste of space.
(I refused to read the section about "Warforged art" when I first bought the book, thinking it lame. That was just dumb of me. Its was useful both in terms of discussing their role in the world, how their eternally mindful mental state forces them to take certain actions to avoid bordom, and even provides some plots hooks -- all in a half a page or so). There was nothing like this in the shifter section, which studiously avoids discussing how shifting could impact someone's psychology, or providing anything that gives you a roleplaying hook. Just lots of workman like hacking about how they have braids and tattoos; the famous NPCs and plot hooks are unorigional, the sample NPCs and village are filler, etc..
I haven't read Kalashar recently enough to really comment. With psionics and the battle vs. the dreaming dark, the race already has lots of flavor.
The other races section actually shines as well, concise and well done. Often left wanting more but that is probably unavoidable. My only real complaint is that humans recieve no treatment and the nationalities aren't brought up in more detail (but the second point is what the upcoming Country book is supposed to address I presume).
I felt that most of the PrCs and just about all of the substitution levels were quite strong in terms of providing interesting story content. I didn't notice any game mechanics that seemed excessively broken, and a few helped round out "interesting but mechanically challeged" race/class combinations. It seemed like great effort was made to keep things balanced; I closely read the the psionic stuff and most of it involved the kinds of tradeoffs that most players wouldn't voluntarily make unless they valued roleplaying over power.
My only real complaint would be that in a world where almost no one is mid level (let alone high level) most of the PrCs started around 5th or 6th and started to give "story relivant powers" at even later levels. Since the point of PrCs (IMHO) is to let a DM quickly and easily make an interesting personality this was a bit of a let down.
The book included only a few magic items/spells; most were useful (i.e. giving and idea of how much an extra shifter shift per day would be worth in game terms) but not ground breaking.
With both of the above books I was left wanting more, but I think that is more of a statement about my psychology than anything else.
Don't have the adventures. After bad reviews I read I scrapped them. If you don't have any you should think about grabbing a few Dungeons. (With the caviate that the recent Eberron adventures haven't been too stimulating). But the regular ones are!
Sharn (4 out of 5)
There was a point where I got a bit tired of reading it but once you've skimmed through it once with paper and pen nearby you can really use it. They don't spend more than they need to on different areas and while some parts of the city are boring they make those areas as short as necessary. So I wouldn't really say "dry".
The descriptions for every neighborhood are really useful; I usually read through each neighborhood the PCs spend any time in. Fast, quick, well-flavored. There is enough detail for DMs to give you some grounding if the PCs wander off the beaten track into random neighborhood without bogging you down.
Generally I think they do a great job of putting in story hooks, and labeling them well. There is a lot more than could ever fit into a single game and just about everything is very "core" Eberron. I.e. extrapolations and additional details of ideas/image from the main book.
The only real crippling flaws are the maps (which are fine for mapping out PCs activities and improvising) are so undetailed as to be really good only for making vague statements. And there is no index (but Keith Baker has one on his website, which you will need to print out and keep a copy of unless you run a very linear game or have a photographic memory).
Races (4 out of 5)
Last night I picked up again in between the WoW servers going down and when I crashed. I am very pleased with Races. It could do more and I've had more than a few debates about that with players. But it tackles the right sorts of issues, gives about the right amount of time, and provides enough crunch for players without going overboard.
The discussions of the Warforged and the Changlings are the best. They talk quite a bit about the deep sorts of mental attitudes that pervade the two races with lots of concrete examples. As a player its easy to understand how your race thinks about itself, what your expectations are of other races, social groupings, ideological factions, etc. Having mindset spun pretty efficiently into concrete examples of behavior really helps ideas flow and gives people an interesting spectrum on which to place characters (both of the PC and NPC variety).
I re-read the shifter section as well and it's, unfortunately, weak. It's not terrible, but unlike the other two mentioned above, the shifter section kind of repeats the same blah fluff about "restraining the inner beast" without much game-useful content. There are a few good sparks (the discussion on the importance of family) but the secton should have been made smaller or else some new ideas should have been added. Compared with a very strong Warforged section its almost a waste of space.
(I refused to read the section about "Warforged art" when I first bought the book, thinking it lame. That was just dumb of me. Its was useful both in terms of discussing their role in the world, how their eternally mindful mental state forces them to take certain actions to avoid bordom, and even provides some plots hooks -- all in a half a page or so). There was nothing like this in the shifter section, which studiously avoids discussing how shifting could impact someone's psychology, or providing anything that gives you a roleplaying hook. Just lots of workman like hacking about how they have braids and tattoos; the famous NPCs and plot hooks are unorigional, the sample NPCs and village are filler, etc..
I haven't read Kalashar recently enough to really comment. With psionics and the battle vs. the dreaming dark, the race already has lots of flavor.
The other races section actually shines as well, concise and well done. Often left wanting more but that is probably unavoidable. My only real complaint is that humans recieve no treatment and the nationalities aren't brought up in more detail (but the second point is what the upcoming Country book is supposed to address I presume).
I felt that most of the PrCs and just about all of the substitution levels were quite strong in terms of providing interesting story content. I didn't notice any game mechanics that seemed excessively broken, and a few helped round out "interesting but mechanically challeged" race/class combinations. It seemed like great effort was made to keep things balanced; I closely read the the psionic stuff and most of it involved the kinds of tradeoffs that most players wouldn't voluntarily make unless they valued roleplaying over power.
My only real complaint would be that in a world where almost no one is mid level (let alone high level) most of the PrCs started around 5th or 6th and started to give "story relivant powers" at even later levels. Since the point of PrCs (IMHO) is to let a DM quickly and easily make an interesting personality this was a bit of a let down.
The book included only a few magic items/spells; most were useful (i.e. giving and idea of how much an extra shifter shift per day would be worth in game terms) but not ground breaking.
With both of the above books I was left wanting more, but I think that is more of a statement about my psychology than anything else.
Don't have the adventures. After bad reviews I read I scrapped them. If you don't have any you should think about grabbing a few Dungeons. (With the caviate that the recent Eberron adventures haven't been too stimulating). But the regular ones are!
I have only the third adventure (the one by Bruce Cordell), which was excellent. Very Indiana Jonesish. 
The material in Dungeon has been hits-and-misses, but the current story-arc (by Collins and Wyatt) have the redeeming quality of being very short and thus easy to expand (which I like). I'm gonna run those one day.
The material in Dungeon has been hits-and-misses, but the current story-arc (by Collins and Wyatt) have the redeeming quality of being very short and thus easy to expand (which I like). I'm gonna run those one day.
Jürgen Hubert
First Post
Sharn is great. Races of Eberron had quite a lof of useful information on the various races ("Kalashtar are really Jedis!" 
), but I would have liked to see more of it, and less "rules crunch".
), but I would have liked to see more of it, and less "rules crunch".Similar Threads
