D&D General How has D&D changed over the decades?

[Minigiant]

Another thing that changed is the expected availablity of magicand magic items in the civilized worlds due to the influence of video gamges.

Final Fantasy 1, a very old game, has a potion shop, white magic shop, and black magic shop in the starter town. Almost every fantasy game does this.
This implies that there are enough fighters thieves, mages, and priests around to keep these shops open.

At least half of the games I pay now have magic shops in every town or city and a potion shop in every village. This is different from when I started 20 years ago where there was no garauntee a random farming or mining or fishing village had a shop selling potions or 1st level scrolls.

 

[HammerMan]

Right - what I meant by "original game" was the table that Gygax ran for his friends. From descriptions it sometimes sounds like they all had wizards and also each commanded small groups of henchmen and approached the dungeon playing multiple characters at once.

because day 1 I didn't even know who gary was or the guys that all those spells were named for... I actually had players focus more on fighter/ranger and rogue... and we didn't have a cleric at all. Over the years we played 2e all but 1 of us gravatated more toward spell casters and we even met someone that had a house rule where we could all be casters. And as we learned more about Gary's game it did feel like everyone had a Wizard, some had 2 or 3 other 'lesser' characters and they all had a small army of henchmen. (I still don't know if that is TRUE, but it is how the stories we heard FELT.

the house rule was called DABBLERs... and it was basically any class could take a X% xp penalty (by default it was 10% but we played with it over the years all the way up to 25%) and you got a spell book, and used the Bard spell per day chart and just grafted it on to your class. (we played with a clergy rule like it once or twice to do it with cleric but that never stuck) and if you even duel classed into wizard you would loose the spells per day keep the spells in spellbook, but start with that 10% you lost of XP immediately applied to wizard.

as such we saw ALOT of Fighter dabblers who after a few levels (what ever level weapon mastery came in I think 5th maybe 6th) duel classed into wizard. We also saw somthing the guy who brought in the house rule was blown away by, cause his older group had NEVER done, Cleric or Druid dabblers so you could cast arcane and divine spells.

My favorite character of all time was a 2e Cleric of Mystra (not in the realms just a god the DM stole) dabbler who after hitting 7th or 8th level duel classed into wizard I had like 100,000 xp or so and the DM had made it a 20% penelty so when I duels I instantly had about 20,000xp in wizard, making me around 5th level and only 2 levels of play before I could use my cleric abilities again without penelty... and that game ended up useing the High Level campagin book and I was 22 or 23 wizard at the end... it was AMAZING and broken.

 

[HammerMan]

Another thing that changed is the expected availablity of magicand magic items in the civilized worlds due to the influence of video gamges.

Final Fantasy 1, a very old game, has a potion shop, white magic shop, and black magic shop in the starter town. Almost every fantasy game does this.
This implies that there are enough fighters thieves, mages, and priests around to keep these shops open.

At least half of the games I pay now have magic shops in every town or city and a potion shop in every village. This is different from when I started 20 years ago where there was no garauntee a random farming or mining or fishing village had a shop selling potions or 1st level scrolls.

before 3e this was rare in games I play and ran (not like it never happened but it was not defualt) some how 3e+ made the groups I play in feel like adventurer was a career that a small but sizable portion of the population achieved (at least low level)

I want to blame the 3.0 DMG and buildingcities.... but that may be unfair

 

[Ovinomancer]

Tasha's was billed as optional for an eyeblink. I wouldn't put it past them.

I'm not aware of any other product that requires you to own Tasha's to use the product. Am I incorrect?

 

[Minigiant]

before 3e this was rare in games I play and ran (not like it never happened but it was not defualt) some how 3e+ made the groups I play in feel like adventurer was a career that a small but sizable portion of the population achieved (at least low level)

I want to blame the 3.0 DMG and buildingcities.... but that may be unfair

I think it was more a cycle.

Early D&D has a full time adventurers being very rare. Lots of part timers and one shotters making a quick buck (aka the baker being a level 1-2 fighter after one anti-goblin quest and retiring to build his shop)

Cartoons, anime, comics, books, and games took D&D influence and made more full timers and infrastructure for heroes.

By 3e, people were so used to adventuerers as a career, it entered the official rules.

 

[Ovinomancer]

It is far from being a tourists' ride in my games. I do let players build things and surprise me and believe me when I tell you that they surprise me more than my fair share. But they do it within parameters that we all agreed upon. You don't need to be a Pixie barbarian or a bunny rogue or whatever to be special. It is not your background that makes you a hero, it is your adventures and your choices.

I get a great sense of accomplishment when my players beat the adventures in a way I did not foresee. As much as I take great pleasure when I surprise them with a plot twist they did not expected. D&D is a dynamic game. But we can put guidelines so that we all enjoy ourselves.

Yes, I was talking about that last paragraph. Being truly surprised in play would mean that you'd not foresee what the adventure was even going to be when you sat down to play.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Another thing that changed is the expected availablity of magicand magic items in the civilized worlds due to the influence of video gamges.

Final Fantasy 1, a very old game, has a potion shop, white magic shop, and black magic shop in the starter town. Almost every fantasy game does this.
This implies that there are enough fighters thieves, mages, and priests around to keep these shops open.

At least half of the games I pay now have magic shops in every town or city and a potion shop in every village. This is different from when I started 20 years ago where there was no garauntee a random farming or mining or fishing village had a shop selling potions or 1st level scrolls.

Progress.

IMO, there's nothing more anti-fantastic than rare and 'speshul' magic with rainbow eyes and a sweet leather trenchcoat all the other girls at school hate..

 

[HammerMan]

I think it was more a cycle.

Early D&D has a full time adventurers being very rare. Lots of part timers and one shotters making a quick buck (aka the baker being a level 1-2 fighter after one anti-goblin quest and retiring to build his shop)

Cartoons, anime, comics, books, and games took D&D influence and made more full timers and infrastructure for heroes.

By 3e, people were so used to adventuerers as a career, it entered the official rules.

yeah I liked the 2e IDEA of the book of NPC classes (It had apothecary and engineer and smith but I can't remember the name) but it always bugged me... in 3e there was a commoner and expert class. In 5e everything is based of prof (still level dependent)

I want a system where I can have a 2HD smith with only weapon prof in war hammer and dagger, that deals 1d3 or 1d4 (+ choice dex or str mod) punch damage BUT also has a +9 or +10 to some smith skill checks and +1 and +2 to a few knowledge skills next to a librian with 1 little HD an average Int (we will say 12-14) but has like +10 or 11 arcana and religon... cause he knows his stuff.

I understand why PC HD and Skill level is linked (even if I think we could uncouple it a bit) but the fact that RAW npcs do always makes it weird... My master sage has 9HD because that gives him the +3 prof and I can give him expertise to make it +6, wit an average Int (I will use 14 for now) that is a +8 to arcana and religion ... but even with an 8 con that makes him sickly and 9d8 (average40hp) the world is 'level based' I think came (I may be wrong so please don't come at me if you need to correct this...be nice) with late 2e and 3e. In early 2e when I was learning having a monster/npc that was a sage didn't need HD at all

 

[Minigiant]

yeah I liked the 2e IDEA of the book of NPC classes (It had apothecary and engineer and smith but I can't remember the name) but it always bugged me... in 3e there was a commoner and expert class. In 5e everything is based of prof (still level dependent)

I want a system where I can have a 2HD smith with only weapon prof in war hammer and dagger, that deals 1d3 or 1d4 (+ choice dex or str mod) punch damage BUT also has a +9 or +10 to some smith skill checks and +1 and +2 to a few knowledge skills next to a librian with 1 little HD an average Int (we will say 12-14) but has like +10 or 11 arcana and religon... cause he knows his stuff.

I understand why PC HD and Skill level is linked (even if I think we could uncouple it a bit) but the fact that RAW npcs do always makes it weird... My master sage has 9HD because that gives him the +3 prof and I can give him expertise to make it +6, wit an average Int (I will use 14 for now) that is a +8 to arcana and religion ... but even with an 8 con that makes him sickly and 9d8 (average40hp) the world is 'level based' I think came (I may be wrong so please don't come at me if you need to correct this...be nice) with late 2e and 3e. In early 2e when I was learning having a monster/npc that was a sage didn't need HD at all

This is concept is why I think 6e with have triple prof or mastery but for NPCs only.

Another way that D&D changed is that it tends to mechanically fill holes over time over just having DM fudge stuff forever.

 

[RuinousPowers]

yeah I liked the 2e IDEA of the book of NPC classes (It had apothecary and engineer and smith but I can't remember the name) but it always bugged me... in 3e there was a commoner and expert class. In 5e everything is based of prof (still level dependent)

I want a system where I can have a 2HD smith with only weapon prof in war hammer and dagger, that deals 1d3 or 1d4 (+ choice dex or str mod) punch damage BUT also has a +9 or +10 to some smith skill checks and +1 and +2 to a few knowledge skills next to a librian with 1 little HD an average Int (we will say 12-14) but has like +10 or 11 arcana and religon... cause he knows his stuff.

I understand why PC HD and Skill level is linked (even if I think we could uncouple it a bit) but the fact that RAW npcs do always makes it weird... My master sage has 9HD because that gives him the +3 prof and I can give him expertise to make it +6, wit an average Int (I will use 14 for now) that is a +8 to arcana and religion ... but even with an 8 con that makes him sickly and 9d8 (average40hp) the world is 'level based' I think came (I may be wrong so please don't come at me if you need to correct this...be nice) with late 2e and 3e. In early 2e when I was learning having a monster/npc that was a sage didn't need HD at all

In 5e those NPCs can be built exactly like that since they do not have to be built like a PC.