D&D 5E How I would have done the Priest/Cleric class differently with Hindsight

[Perun]

The Paladin lost a huge part of its identity when the Lawful Good requirement was abandoned.

I'm not saying it should go back to that, but the champion of utter goodness with the Holy Sword and Special Bonded Mount and tithes to the local Good Church was slightly different than the Cleric. WOTC making the Paladin function differently than Fighter + Lay on Hands has created a pretty cool class to play, a class which resembles the old school Cleric in everything but name.

There was an old 2e web novel, The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters by Roger M Wilcox (link), a muchkin rules-exploiting extravaganza, with a paladin as the protagonist. When once asked why he became a paladin, he replied something along the lines of how he rolled a 17 for Charisma, and he didn't want to waste it

I gotta say D&D has never done gods/pantheons/religious organizations well. For me Cleric has lost all the identity it had, and the 5E Oaths are way cooler than the Divine Domains.

The 5E cleric is all over the place, IMO. It's stuck somewhere between 2e cleric and specialty priest, while being none.

Back in the day, you were a holy person because you communed with the gods/spirits/other world. Not A god. Its these old strange limitations plus the even more bizarre introduction of a Warlock which represents the archetype of character who is bound to a Singular Greater Power far better than Cleric.

What do you mean when you say "back in the day"? I know 1e had gods (I always preferred the 2e 'deity' to 'god', but then again I prefer baatezu and tanar'ri to devils and demons, so I know I'm weird that way).

As for warlock, it's a flavour thing. The way I see it, gods are immensely powerful, and have lots of worshippers and many, many clerics. Thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands (probably millions if you think in multiverse terms). Each of those clerics receives spells, and they don't have to make a pact/agreement/contract with the deity him/her/itself. Sure, they likely take oaths and stuff, but they don't have to do it directly with the deity.

Warlocks, OTOH, make a direct pact with some kind of powerful (but not anywhere near as powerful as gods) entity. Maybe it's not explicitly written int he rules, I don't remember ATM, but that's the ways I see it. You have to make a contract with the entity, you get the power, in return for your soul, services, rendered, future favour to be named, or even just because (archfey, I'm looking at you).

I'm rambling.

No worries. I've been doing a lot of that over the last couple of days

 

[Undrave]

I think the Cleric's base spell list should have been smaller and the Domain list larger, so your domain flavours your cleric much more than it does now.

Also that wether you're a Blasty-Robe cleric or an Armored-Fighty cleric probably shouldn't have been linked to Domain. Probably a thing binary class feature where you pick either weapon and armour prof. or you get attack cantrips. Or something like that.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

If I had been in charge of 5e, I think I would have combined the paladin and bladelock as an armored type like the paladin but with invocations like the warlock (and more of them.) No spell slots, but lots of "you can cast this spell at level X (goes up to Y at level Z). You can't do it again until you complete a long rest. If you take this invocation multiple times, you can cast the spell once per invocation before needing to take a long rest." invocations. It would be a matrix of what you swore an oath to do, and who you swore it to. Swearing an oath of vengeance to a fiend makes you the best damage baseline dealer, and swearing an oath to protect something to a celestial makes you the best baseline healer. Swearing an oath to a fey gives you sneaky abilities, and swearing to find something/someone makes you a good tracker.....

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

If I had been in charge of 5e, I think I would have combined the paladin and bladelock as an armored type like the paladin but with invocations like the warlock (and more of them.) No spell slots, but lots of "you can cast this spell at level X (goes up to Y at level Z). You can't do it again until you complete a long rest. If you take this invocation multiple times, you can cast the spell once per invocation before needing to take a long rest." invocations. It would be a matrix of what you swore an oath to do, and who you swore it to. Swearing an oath of vengeance to a fiend makes you the best damage baseline dealer, and swearing an oath to protect something to a celestial makes you the best baseline healer. Swearing an oath to a fey gives you sneaky a abilities, and swearing to find something/someone makes you a good tracker.....

I'm not sure I'd call that Paladin, but it sure sounds cool.

 

[Minigiant]

I think Domains have rely cheapen the subclasses of the Cleric.

There is not that much space for customization for the cleric once you get in spell list, and CD. Iwould have made Domains separate from subclass. Sublasses would be the 4e style role.

• Cleric
  • Avenger- Sneaky light armor cleric withStealth and Oath of Enmity (Roguey Cleric)
  • Healer- Medium armor cleric with bonus healing (Healy-Cleric)
  • Inquistitor- Medium armor cleric with Potent Cantrip (Blasty-Cleric)
  • Invoker- Light armor cleric with Potent Cantrip (Blasty-Cleric)
  • Runepriest- Heavy Armor cleric with runes (Fighter-cleric)
  • Templar- Traditional heavy armor cleric with Divine Strike (OG Cleric)
  • Theurge- Light armor cleric with a spellbook (Mage-cleric)
  • Wapriest- Heavy armor cleric that can take multiple domains and extra CD (3.5Cleric)

Domains would be seperate from subclass. They would just offer bonus spells and a new Channel Divinity.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I'm not sure I'd call that Paladin, but it sure sounds cool.

Thanks. Much like PF2's champions, I think only the "swear an oath to a celestial" subclasses would be paladins. I honestly don't know what to call it; it doesn't feel like a champion or crusader or warlock and "oathbound" might be a little too on the nose.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I don't know how mechanically different this would end up, but for clerics, I would make them the weirdo running around the countryside looking for "signs", "the world as you know it is just an illusion" class. They have wisdom, but no great charisma, so it isn't like they are pulling people into the faith. They deal with the problem behind the problem: the vampire whispering in the king's ear, the demon lord sending dreams into the orc warlord's mind, etc.

That still leaves room for a ritual casting NPC priest who can do fertility rituals, marriage ceremonies, exorcisms, but can't cast a spell in less than an hour (preferably with a number of true believers on hand to add some faith), but those aren't the guys you send down a dungeon, any more than the alter boy cleric, choir leader cleric, deacon cleric, pipe organ playing cleric, or whatever is necessary to fill up someone's ecclesiastical org chart.

 

[dave2008]

I think Domains have rely cheapen the subclasses of the Cleric.

There is not that much space for customization for the cleric once you get in spell list, and CD. Iwould have made Domains separate from subclass. Sublasses would be the 4e style role.

• Cleric
  • Avenger- Sneaky light armor cleric withStealth and Oath of Enmity (Roguey Cleric)
  • Healer- Medium armor cleric with bonus healing (Healy-Cleric)
  • Inquistitor- Medium armor cleric with Potent Cantrip (Blasty-Cleric)
  • Invoker- Light armor cleric with Potent Cantrip (Blasty-Cleric)
  • Runepriest- Heavy Armor cleric with runes (Fighter-cleric)
  • Templar- Traditional heavy armor cleric with Divine Strike (OG Cleric)
  • Theurge- Light armor cleric with a spellbook (Mage-cleric)
  • Wapriest- Heavy armor cleric that can take multiple domains and extra CD (3.5Cleric)

Domains would be seperate from subclass. They would just offer bonus spells and a new Channel Divinity.

I like this a lot. I think I will adapt this approach for my next campaign. Thank you for the idea!