D&D 5E How I'd rewrite Dark Sun... what changes would you make?

[Umbran]

If I were rewriting Dark Sun I... well, I wouldn't. I'd try to start fresh and create a new setting with similar themes and motifs, but very deliberately not Athas and all that it implies.

If I were rewriting Dark Sun, I... also wouldn't. But I wouldn't write it at all. I'd run another Setting Search, looking for a world with post-apocalyptic themes.

 

[Dragonhelm]

If I were rewriting Dar Sun, I... also wouldn't. But I wouldn't writ it at all. I'd run another Setting Search, looking for a world with post-apocalyptic themes.

There's always Gamma World.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Unlike other respondents, I like the idea of hidden, reduced gods. Some of whom may even be in thrall to the Sorcerer Kings.

That said, DS never really appealed to me - mostly because of the racial slavery and cannibal halfling bits. Also because - ummm, water is life - where is the water?

I'd play in yours Steampunkette

 

[Staffan]

That said, DS never really appealed to me - mostly because of the racial slavery and cannibal halfling bits. Also because - ummm, water is life - where is the water?

Seriously, there's like one canonical cannibal halfling in the whole setting, and he's an outcast because of it.

Now, there are plenty of halflings who wouldn't turn down a bit of human or elf or dwarf if the opportunity came around, but that doesn't make them cannibals. Also, it's not like they go actively hunting for people, but they are extremely territorial, and will kill any non-halfling intruding on their territory unless given very strong reasons not to. And hey, waste not, want not.

 

[Steampunkette]

Slavery - This must be handled extra carefully and must absolutely be seen as an evil to fight against. Years (decades) ago in the 2e Dark Sun days, I ran a short campaign that amounted to the player characters being ex-slaves who freed other slaves and were raising an army to fight against the local sorcerer-king. Lots of muls, half-giants, and thri-kreen in there.

Just have to make it clearly evil and the players as against it. People who fight back.

I'm not certain about this one. Maybe they're all working towards it, seeing the success of Borys, but they try different things with different results. Some good, some very bad.

They're all working towards SOMETHING. Just make it more individual rather than a "This is the one Evil Path and there's also one Good Path as well" type false dichotomy. I hate dichotomies like that so much, there should always be various options for the Sorcerer Kings.

Each more evil than the last!

I like this, but would it then be available to players?

100% available at all times. Defile away! Everyone hates you and wants you dead. Especially your party members that are now down 10hp each until they find a Cleric on Athas.

Possibly, though I would approach it with the players exploring ruins and discovering that the world was once a very different place and could be so again.

Maybe, yeah. But no big "And you need to know this" DM Timeline of the world that puts stuff into context. Broken tidbits of lost lore and history scattered across creation.

I always liked the idea of Borys being the only dragon on Athas. I'm not wholly a fan of his art and I really dislike his name. Borys sounds like a dude from Russia, not the big bad of the setting.

It was a weird name choice...

I like this. Would everyone hate arcane magic still?

ABSOLUTELY. Because your average person doesn't know there's a difference between Defiling and not Defiling.

On this one, I disagree. Maybe they died. Maybe they realized this world wasn't worth saving.

It's the most controversial. I like it, but I get why many don't.

I liked how 4e had no divine power source, so no clerics or paladins. I like the idea of a primal magic source, kind of like what they did in 4e. It looks like they're going back to that in One D&D.

Eh... The Primal Power Source is definitely a must in my book. But I like the idea of the Sorcerer Kings granting Paladins/Heralds magic powers. Priests, too. Just -evil- ones.

And Warlocks, too, of course.

I liked how in 4e, there was a sorcerer-king warlock pact. I think that would work well in this case.

Yup.

I would really like to see some research on rain in real-world deserts, such as the Sahara. Mimic that.

Once every several years there's a little rain. But due to the heat of the Sahara it creates a general buffer zone across it's length and breadth of high pressure around which cold pressure zones move.

If you have a whole planet which is a high pressure zone, you can't really -have- that dynamic. But unless the vast majority of the water were utterly destroyed, there would still be SO MUCH WATER.

And the options in that situation are either:

a) The humidity is constantly 99+% but it cannot actually rain because the temperature is too high for water to exist in a liquid state (Which is 100C or 212F in either case everyone is steam-cooked and dead)
b) It rains Hot.

The Atmosphere can only contain so much water under the boiling point before it has no choice but to fall out of solution.

1. Psionics are a must. I would love to see a focus on that in 5e. Now, the question is, does psionic magic allow for defiling?

Check my Signature. And also no, Psionics don't defile because they aren't magic.

2. I want to see druids trying to restore nature. They know it's off in a bad way.

Some, sure. Preservers. But most Druids try to protect their own little plot of land/sky/caves within the Dark Sun lore.

3. Elemental Magic - This would be good for the druid. I liked the elemental priests. Don't go with earth, air, fire, and water, though. That's too cliche. Go with sand, sun, wind, and rain. It's essentially the same, but that sounds cooler for a Dark Sun campaign.

Yup, that's a part of the canon that the elemental priests follow those four. Like since it's inception.

4. Make Dark Sun more recognizable. Let's see Dark Sun versions of a lot of monsters, rather than most monsters being new ones just for Dark Sun.

I like it.

5. How scarce is metal?

Really Scarce. Always has been in Dark Sun. That wouldn't change. Bone and Wood weapons are super common.

6. What about magic items?

Similarly scarce. Hard to enchant a bone weapon when you know it's gonna break on a nat 1.

 

[Dausuul]

1) There would still be slavery and cannibalism.

Heroic characters would not participate in Slavery or Cannibalism. They'd be the province of the wicked, the cruel, and the desperate. Mul would not be a "Slave Race", specifically. They would just be Mul. Thri-Kreen wouldn't be cannibalistic as a species, and instead often accused of it because of their strange mindset and weird appearance. Similarly, Halflings aren't cannibals, but there are halfling cannibal tribes that are becoming 'living ghouls' just like all other cannibals.

2) It'd be Points of Light.

Small desert encampments of good people trying hard to survive in a terrible world. Good people in terrible situations in various city-states. Yes, the world is largely destroyed, but even the Sorcerer Kings couldn't wipe out -everyone- on the planet.

3) The Sorcerer-Kings would not be working towards Draconic Apotheosis.

They'd have their goals for "Ever More Power!" with various paths to it rather than one for all of them doing the same boring thing.

4) Kalak is dead.

Tyr the Free City would not be devoid of problems. But Kalak would be in the ground having been killed several days before the start of the campaign setting timeline. Yes. Days. Meaning it's still Chaos in Tyr. Wealthy merchants vying for control of the city through brute force being killed in their homes by revolutionaries.

5) Defiling is not the basic nature of Magic, but a specific use.

Defiling isn't how spellcasting works, but is a tempting and constantly available power boost. Withering a 5ft patch of grass adds +4 damage to any spell. Killing a tree adds +30. Things of that nature. HP taken from party members is a straight 1 to 1 damage boost, but reduces your ally's hit points by the same value until restored, or 1hp per long rest.

6) What happened to the World would not be answered.

Leave it to be a question for philosophers. But there would be no knowledge of the Blue Age or whatever. There'd be some legends of the world before the Sorcerer Kings conquered it, but practically nothing explaining -why- or -how-. You don't need to know everything.

7) Borys would be the "Dragon of Athas" as a unique creature.

He would still demand tributes from the other Sorcerer Kings but it wouldn't be 1,000 people from each settlement or whatever. Resources, Wealth, Food, a true Tyrant King above all others, who sometimes finds little encampments in 'his' deserts and wipes them out.

8) Preservers are trying to save the world.

Largely outside of cities, the Preservers are a group of people who are doing all that they can to preserve what remains of the world and restore some measure of what was lost. They have hope. Maybe it'll work. Maybe it won't. But they're trying to find pockets of life and plants and good soil in the world... and collect them. Bring the soil and the seeds and the life together to try and slowly restore the world.

9) It's not just the Tablelands.

The Tablelands are Borys' place. His territory, with the heart of his "Empire" in the Silt Sea. Beyond it are things like the Crimson Wastes and the Stone Jungle, a place the defilers destroyed but the petrified trees didn't collapse like they largely did in the Tablelands. Yes, there are people in the Stone Jungle and the Crimson Wastes. No. They're not more friendly than the people of the Tablelands. They may or may not have Sorcerer Kings of their own. No one knows. Their languages aren't known in the Tablelands.

10) There are still Gods.

Oh, this one would be controversial... but yeah. In addition to the Elementals, there would be gods in the world, yet. But they'd be practically titans and forgotten gods (a5e Monstrous Menagerie). Creatures you could theoretically kill that exist on a mortal level. But they exist and could grant some measure of power to a hundred followers or so... but as the world dies, so too do they. And they are greatly weakened, and occasionally wrathful. They fear the Sorcerer Kings... who have stolen much of their power. And may yet take the last of it. They tend to masquerade as mortals and hide, acting almost exclusively through their agents.

11) The Sorcerer Kings are also Gods, basically.

They're not full power external to human experience god-beings that drift across the cosmos creating things... But they can directly grant power to their servants like a god would. And have more servants than the "Old Gods". Also killing one of the Old Gods in a ritual could be a path to power for, say, Nibenay or one of the others.

12) There would be rain.

Fitful, hot, and unsatisfying. Occasionally toxic. There would still be rain on Athas... but the thirsting sands consume it and drag it away... The Sea of Silt is actually a -sea-. With some water intermingled with the Silt. And Silt Sea Raiders do all they can to filter out another mouthful of greywater from what moisture remains. After rains cross the Silt Sea, there are -days- of ease and leisure for the Silt Sea Raiders... but once the water slips down past the first 20-30 feet of silt, it's practically impossible to get at. Never enough rain to slake the thirsty masses in the City-States... but enough to let the rovers barely survive.

I would buy this in a heartbeat.

 

[BrokenTwin]

I don't 100% agree with all of these (there being no literal gods was always a massive selling point of the setting for me), but all in all I really like these ideas.

In my home version of the setting, I've broken down the sources of magic as such:

Arcane: the defiling magic. Consumes the magic/soul of the planet itself on use, with casters being able to consciously draw more power by Defiling their immediate area.
Divine: this magic is granted by powerful entities disconnected from the natural world. Pretty much solely the domain of the sorcerer kings at this point, though them all being selfish and power hungry means they're slow to give and quick to take away.
Primal: magic granted by communion with nature spirits, who are now few and far between thanks to the defiling. The only magic capable of actually restoring the planet's magic/soul.
Psionic: an expression of oneself made manifest. This power is recharged through personal connections with other intelligent life. Most people have a little experience using it, but few realise just how powerful it could be if harnessed as a collective.

 

[Micah Sweet]

1) There would still be slavery and cannibalism.

Heroic characters would not participate in Slavery or Cannibalism. They'd be the province of the wicked, the cruel, and the desperate. Mul would not be a "Slave Race", specifically. They would just be Mul. Thri-Kreen wouldn't be cannibalistic as a species, and instead often accused of it because of their strange mindset and weird appearance. Similarly, Halflings aren't cannibals, but there are halfling cannibal tribes that are becoming 'living ghouls' just like all other cannibals.

2) It'd be Points of Light.

Small desert encampments of good people trying hard to survive in a terrible world. Good people in terrible situations in various city-states. Yes, the world is largely destroyed, but even the Sorcerer Kings couldn't wipe out -everyone- on the planet.

3) The Sorcerer-Kings would not be working towards Draconic Apotheosis.

They'd have their goals for "Ever More Power!" with various paths to it rather than one for all of them doing the same boring thing.

4) Kalak is dead.

Tyr the Free City would not be devoid of problems. But Kalak would be in the ground having been killed several days before the start of the campaign setting timeline. Yes. Days. Meaning it's still Chaos in Tyr. Wealthy merchants vying for control of the city through brute force being killed in their homes by revolutionaries.

5) Defiling is not the basic nature of Magic, but a specific use.

Defiling isn't how spellcasting works, but is a tempting and constantly available power boost. Withering a 5ft patch of grass adds +4 damage to any spell. Killing a tree adds +30. Things of that nature. HP taken from party members is a straight 1 to 1 damage boost, but reduces your ally's hit points by the same value until restored, or 1hp per long rest.

6) What happened to the World would not be answered.

Leave it to be a question for philosophers. But there would be no knowledge of the Blue Age or whatever. There'd be some legends of the world before the Sorcerer Kings conquered it, but practically nothing explaining -why- or -how-. You don't need to know everything.

7) Borys would be the "Dragon of Athas" as a unique creature.

He would still demand tributes from the other Sorcerer Kings but it wouldn't be 1,000 people from each settlement or whatever. Resources, Wealth, Food, a true Tyrant King above all others, who sometimes finds little encampments in 'his' deserts and wipes them out.

8) Preservers are trying to save the world.

Largely outside of cities, the Preservers are a group of people who are doing all that they can to preserve what remains of the world and restore some measure of what was lost. They have hope. Maybe it'll work. Maybe it won't. But they're trying to find pockets of life and plants and good soil in the world... and collect them. Bring the soil and the seeds and the life together to try and slowly restore the world.

9) It's not just the Tablelands.

The Tablelands are Borys' place. His territory, with the heart of his "Empire" in the Silt Sea. Beyond it are things like the Crimson Wastes and the Stone Jungle, a place the defilers destroyed but the petrified trees didn't collapse like they largely did in the Tablelands. Yes, there are people in the Stone Jungle and the Crimson Wastes. No. They're not more friendly than the people of the Tablelands. They may or may not have Sorcerer Kings of their own. No one knows. Their languages aren't known in the Tablelands.

10) There are still Gods.

Oh, this one would be controversial... but yeah. In addition to the Elementals, there would be gods in the world, yet. But they'd be practically titans and forgotten gods (a5e Monstrous Menagerie). Creatures you could theoretically kill that exist on a mortal level. But they exist and could grant some measure of power to a hundred followers or so... but as the world dies, so too do they. And they are greatly weakened, and occasionally wrathful. They fear the Sorcerer Kings... who have stolen much of their power. And may yet take the last of it. They tend to masquerade as mortals and hide, acting almost exclusively through their agents.

11) The Sorcerer Kings are also Gods, basically.

They're not full power external to human experience god-beings that drift across the cosmos creating things... But they can directly grant power to their servants like a god would. And have more servants than the "Old Gods". Also killing one of the Old Gods in a ritual could be a path to power for, say, Nibenay or one of the others.

12) There would be rain.

Fitful, hot, and unsatisfying. Occasionally toxic. There would still be rain on Athas... but the thirsting sands consume it and drag it away... The Sea of Silt is actually a -sea-. With some water intermingled with the Silt. And Silt Sea Raiders do all they can to filter out another mouthful of greywater from what moisture remains. After rains cross the Silt Sea, there are -days- of ease and leisure for the Silt Sea Raiders... but once the water slips down past the first 20-30 feet of silt, it's practically impossible to get at. Never enough rain to slake the thirsty masses in the City-States... but enough to let the rovers barely survive.

Congratulations. That is a truly excellent take!

 

[Micah Sweet]

There's always Gamma World.

Gamma World has a strong strain of silliness that to me to is decidedly not Dark Sun.

 

[dave2008]

Check my Signature. And also no, Psionics don't defile because they aren't magic.

I thought elemental magic didn't defile either? Do I have that wrong? My point being, not all magic defiles (or so I thought by canon).

To me psionics is magic, just a different source or way to access it. The inner primal magic if you will. So if all magic defiles than that is an issue for me.

In my idea of DS: arcane magic defiles and divine magic is gone. Psionics is the standard method to do magical things without those two sources and without defiling. I haven't made my mind up on elemental and primal magic.* I could see them still working, but I would want a totally different magic system for them compared to what we have in the core 5e books.

*Note: I see elemental and primal magic as being similar: calling on the power of elemental or primal spirits to do magical things. So you call on the power of xyz and get a magical effect. The spells would be more like rituals and generally not be as combat focused IMO.