How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

[Mallus]

Just wanted to say that the cognitive dissonance I face with Cagi is that it can make the artillery say, "Righty-O, lets leave our cover, run up and batter the armoured man with our little fists rather than continue to shoot him with our bows or magic spells".

That is a bit tricky. Personally, I enjoy the challenge of trying to find a reasonable (enough) way to narrate a fighter using GaGI on a group of bowmen or mages.

It's not unreasonable for bowmen to drops their bows and draw swords when a swordsman's bearing down on them. That makes sense in a realistic context, even though the smart D&D-world tactic would be to continue firing at point-blank range. Similarly, the DM could describe magicians, full of hubris, wreathing their hands in fire and answering the fighter's challenge to meet him hand-to-hand.

I know they're both a stretch, but no more idiotic than any one of a number of beloved genre conventions ("You're going to fight a giant, flying dragon with a sword? Good luck with that.")

 

[Mallus]

No. The statement fails because it doesn't address the actual qualities of the power it attempts to explain. It works for Mallus because he ignores certain qualities of that power (or those powers).

Which qualities am I'm ignoring, specifically?

 

[Raven Crowking]

It's not unreasonable for bowmen to drops their bows and draw swords when a swordsman's bearing down on them.

Sure.

But oddly enough, it's the bowmen who are drawing swords and bearing down on the unmoving swordsman.......

 

[Mallus]

Sure.

But oddly enough, it's the bowmen who are drawing swords and bearing down on the unmoving swordsman.......

They're trying to get the jump on him!

 

[Raven Crowking]

Which qualities am I'm ignoring, specifically?

Well, one big one is that the movement doesn't need to make sense for the character being moved in the situation he is being moved in.

Another is that, unless I am mistaken, the power isn't limited by the target's actual movement rate. So, you can CAGI a creature which is normally immobile, paralyzed, etc. Indeed, I am fairly certain that you could use CAGI (or other, similar powers) to move your paralyzed friend out of harm's way.



RC

 

[Shroomy]

I knew there was a reason I picked those two!

To be fair, while regeneration and invisbility mechanically still largely work like they did in earlier editions (you regain hit points, you can't be seen), they do operate within a different rules context.

 

[Kask]

Artful Dodger: You slide the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier.

Hilarious! Sounds like a board game rule.

 

[Shroomy]

Well, one big one is that the movement doesn't need to make sense for the character being moved in the situation he is being moved in.

Another is that, unless I am mistaken, the power isn't limited by the target's actual movement rate. So, you can CAGI a creature which is normally immobile, paralyzed, etc. Indeed, I am fairly certain that you could use CAGI (or other, similar powers) to move your paralyzed friend out of harm's way.



RC

Forced movement is not considered a move action and the power that causes the forced movement determines the distanced move. It applies to immobilized targets, but not restrained ones. Specifically, CAGI cannot be used on allies.

 

[Mad Mac]

Good God. Why oh why didn't they just make Come and Get It require a Bluff check or an attack versus Will?

Oversight, probably. Most similar powers do require an attack vs will, and it's an easy enough houserule to make.

Another is that, unless I am mistaken, the power isn't limited by the target's actual movement rate. So, you can CAGI a creature which is normally immobile, paralyzed, etc. Indeed, I am fairly certain that you could use CAGI (or other, similar powers) to move your paralyzed friend out of harm's way.

Nope. CAGI forces targets to shift, which means it is not considered forced movement. So if they are restrained, immobile, ect the power fails. It also doesn't work on allies.

Positioning Strike is a power for swashbuckly or tricky rogues, and implies a feint to draw the target off-balance, followed by a shove.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Forced movement is not considered a move action and the power that causes the forced movement determines the distanced move. It applies to immobilized targets, but not restrained ones.

Nope. CAGI forces targets to shift, which means it is not considered forced movement. So if they are restrained, immobile, ect the power fails.

So, which is it?



Also, can you Artful Dodge or Positioning Strike your paralyzed ally? Your immobile enemy?

And, to take a page from RefinedBean, does the RAW specify that the other PCs are your allies? (I kid with this one; I am more than willing to assume that English is English unless specified otherwise, as with specific game terms!)


RC