How is a vampire possibly worth +8 LA?

[Grog]

They might not ruin the other players' time necessarily, if they save it for when the chips are down though. The vampire character can be open about it to the other characters "Look guys. I'm a vampire. I generally don't plan on creating an army of spawn, but if we ever come across something that is too hard to beat, I'm willing to do it, and we should be able to completely slaughter the opposition that way as 1000s of vampire spawn back us up."

Except they can't get thousands of vampire spawn to back them up. "At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn." For an ECL 13 vampire, that means exactly two enslaved vampire spawn.

And anyway, we weren't talking about the party running into a monster that was too hard to beat. We were talking about the vampire using his create spawn ability to create havoc in the city after being found out and having clerics from the local temples come after him. That would ruin the cool urban, social/political campaign we were discussing. After all, there's not much point in trying to foil Lord Hilgorson's plot to take over the city council when half the city has been turned into vampire spawn or wights and is busy slaughtering the other half.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Except they can't get thousands of vampire spawn to back them up. "At any given time a vampire may have enslaved spawn totaling no more than twice its own Hit Dice; any spawn it creates that would exceed this limit are created as free-willed vampires or vampire spawn." For an ECL 13 vampire, that means exactly two enslaved vampire spawn.

If you unleash them on the BBEG's stronghold with nowhere else convenient to get blood, they'll probably attack it though.

 

[Question]

So the high LA is for troublesome players who want to ruin campaigns? Why not give it a decent LA so normal players can run them as PCs, and then let the DM do whatever he feels like if someone tries to screw the campaign up as a vampire?

 

[Grog]

If you unleash them on the BBEG's stronghold with nowhere else convenient to get blood, they'll probably attack it though.

Again - we're talking about a campaign set in a city. There are plenty of other places for them to get blood.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Again - we're talking about a campaign set in a city. There are plenty of other places for them to get blood.

Heh, well at the point, the vampire PC shrugs about the collateral damage, and the party, who have all bought magic silver weapons and other vampire-hunting paraphenalia ahead of time (or, since this is level 13 or above anyway and they probably have good magic, they might have even put some kind of triggerable kill rune on the bodies before they rose as spawn), wait for the BBEG to bite it and then offer their services to the high council as vampire-slayers and become the heroes of the town.

 

[ThirdWizard]

If you unleash them on the BBEG's stronghold with nowhere else convenient to get blood, they'll probably attack it though.

Or a wizard could use enervation to create a bunch of wights out of commoners.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Or a wizard could use enervation to create a bunch of wights out of commoners.

Uhh, I don't think so. Where does it say that in Enervation? If that was true, the Create Undead spells would suck even more than they already do.

 

[Len]

Uhh, I don't think so. Where does it say that in Enervation? If that was true, the Create Undead spells would suck even more than they already do.

It's not in the spell description, it's in the DMG under "Energy Drain and Negative Levels".

A character with negative levels at least equal to her current level, or drained below 1st level, is instantly slain. Depending on the creature that killed her, she may rise the next night as a monster of that kind. If not, she rises as a wight.

 

[Rystil Arden]

It's not in the spell description, it's in the DMG under "Energy Drain and Negative Levels".

I actually never knew that--wow, that makes the Create Greater Undead spell and Create Undead spells both a horrible waste. That rule is nonsensical, so IMC, I'm definitely not going to use that clause, but of course it is a house rule.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That rule is nonsensical, so IMC, I'm definitely not going to use that clause, but of course it is a house rule.

That's not nonsensical. You haven't begun to plum the intriguing nonsensical potential of the rule until you consider what happens when a 1st level character picks up a magic sword... let's say a Lawful character and a +1 Anarchic Longsword.

Takes a negative level, dies, and rises the next night as a wight...

-Hyp.